'This Week' Transcript 5-31-26: White House National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett & Sen. Cory Booker
This is a rush transcript of "This Week" airing Sunday, May 31.
A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, May 31, 2026 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONATHAN KARL, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: Three judges, three legal setbacks for President Trump. “THIS WEEK” starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: Retribution fund on hold. Over the course of a single day, judges moved to pause the $1.8 billion fund and investigate Trump’s IRS lawsuit, while another judge orders Trump’s name removed from the Kennedy Center.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The previous management left us a facility in very bad condition. Abysmal is the word.
KARL: This morning, our legal panel on what it all means for Trump, and (ph) the courts, and Democratic Senator Cory Booker.
Is there a deal?
TRUMP: They’re very good negotiators. They’re crafty. But, in the end, we have all the cards.
KARL: Trump and his national security team huddle in the Situation Room for hours, all as Americans feel the pinch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It’s really created a big barrier.
KARL: This morning, top Trump economic adviser Kevin Hassett.
A Trump $250 bill.
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: If you are the president, just like Calvin Coolidge was for the 150th, if you’re the president for the 250th, President Trump should be on there.
KARL: Pushback as Trump administration officials attempt to put his image on a new bill. And only a few weeks away from America’s 250th birthday, why are so many performers dropping out?
High stakes races.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are running a campaign that is bigger than any party.
KEN PAXTON (R), U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: Without a shadow of a doubt, I will be the Democrats’ number one target in November.
KARL: On the heels of Ken Paxton’s win in the Lone Star State, the roundtable on which Senate seats are most likely to flip.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it’s “THIS WEEK.” Here now, Jonathan Karl.
KARL: Good morning. Welcome to this week.
It’s a week where President Trump suffered three significant setbacks in a single day from three different judges in three different jurisdictions. The first came from a judge in the Eastern District of Virginia, who ruled that President Trump’s $1.8 billion anti-weaponization fund cannot give out a single dollar until further proceedings on whether the fund is legal.
Hours later, another federal judge, Kathleen Williams of the Southern District of Florida, took a step towards reopening Trump’s $10 billion lawsuit against the IRS that led to the creation of that fund, saying she wants to investigate “grievous allegations” brought by 35 retired federal judges, that the deal to settle that lawsuit was, quote, “premised on deception” and whether the settlement itself is a “fraud on the court.”
She questioned whether another aspect of the settlement, the one that forbids the federal government from pursuing tax claims or even auditing the president, his family and his companies, violates Department of Justice policy. The tax immunity provision was signed solely by Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche. A Justice Department spokesperson responded to these rulings, saying, quote, “The department remains extremely confident in the legality of the anti-weaponization fund. We will not allow the policy preferences of judges to interfere with our efforts to provide restitution to victims of lawfare.”
But those weren’t the only setbacks for Trump in court on Friday. Judge Christopher Cooper of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ordered the removal of President Trump’s name from the Kennedy Center. In a bluntly worded opinion, Judge Cooper wrote that neither Trump nor his hand-picked board has a right to add his name to the Kennedy Center, and he gave the administration 14 days to take Trump’s name down from the front of the building and to remove any reference to a Trump Kennedy Center on the organization’s website or in any of its promotional materials. “Congress gave the Kennedy Center its name,” the judge wrote, “and only Congress can change it.” The ruling came on what would have been President Kennedy’s 109th birthday.
President Trump responded with two lengthy diatribes on social media against Judge Cooper, calling his ruling “dangerous,” saying Judge Cooper should be ashamed of himself and should be impeached, declaring, quote, “There has never been a president of the United States who has been treated so unfairly by the courts as I.”
But in that same post, Trump seemed to suggest he would not appeal, that he would instead walk away from the Kennedy Center making “a full and complete transfer of the institution to Congress,” saying he has “no interest” in the very institution his allies had just made him chairman of last year.
All right, to help make sense of all this, let’s bring in ABC News legal analyst Dan Abrams and Sarah Isgur.
Dan, big question here, the -- obviously, a series of setbacks, but how permanent are these setbacks?
DAN ABRAMS, CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I’m not sure that they’re all going to be permanent here. The fundamental question in both these cases is, who can bring the case, right? Even if you believe that there is a valid lawsuit with regard to both the fund and the naming of the Kennedy Center, the question is, who can bring it? Who has the authority?
Typically, it would be Congress, right? It would be Congress who would say, you know, we’re the ones who established this Kennedy Center, and we’re the ones who are supposed to have the power of the purse. And as a result, we’re going to sue. And yet, they haven’t. And that’s what creates this sort of doubt about the future of some of these rulings.
Now, I think the more dangerous one for them may be the judge who is reevaluating the fund, meaning in South Florida, because she was the one overseeing that case in the first place. By her saying, I’m now revisiting this case, I’m now looking at the settlement, I'm now going to examine exactly what happened, and when it happened, I think that one has more potential to be dangerous for them in the long term. That, again, if the president doesn’t appeal the Kennedy Center case, then obviously that ruling would stand as well.
KARL: All right, Sarah, I know that on that tax issue and the settlement fund that you believe that the judge exceeded her authority. But first, just let me set this up. Let me ask you, do you think that the president is within his legal authority to sue the government that he runs, and then to make a settlement with himself on a case that was brought after the statute of limitations had expired?
SARAH ISGUR, EDITOR AT SCOTUSBLOG & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: No. And it’s not even close. You know, live by unitary executive theory, die by unitary executive theory. This was never an adversarial case. There are so many legal problems with this fund. Or take the Kennedy Center, where Congress passed a clear statute naming the Kennedy Center. The president acting alone can’t change that.
KAR: But you believe that the judge, let’s take the tax case, you believe the judge wildly exceeded her authority in this?
ISGUR: You know, this is the problem where we believe, as Americans, that we have to resolve all of these things in court. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, in one of her last opinions as a justice, said that the courts were a passive instrument. They could not Sally Forth each day to find wrongs to right. Congress has a role here. It is to use their political powers of the power of the purse, the power of impeachment, to check a rogue president.
But the courts aren’t necessarily the ones just because a president has done something unlawful that can fix this for us. We, as voters, must. Congress must. These are a political problem, not necessarily a legal problem.
KARL: So, Dan, given that and given what you said is that Congress would be the one that would have standing on these cases, particularly the Kennedy Center case, if Congress is controlled by the president’s, you know, supporters not willing to challenge him, the president can break the law? I mean, what does this mean?
ABRAMS: Well, look, it means that Congress has to engage in oversight. And one of the interesting questions with regard to the Kennedy Center case is, remember, the plaintiff is a member of Congress, right? It is a Democratic member of Congress who has been named to the board as what’s called an ex officio member of the board of trustees there. And the -- and the question legally becomes, what power does that Democratic representative, who’s been appointed per the statute, have to challenge the rest of the trustees? How much power does she have with regard to voting?
You know, the Kennedy Center one is particularly interesting in that regard because Congress does have a role in that, in an ongoing way. The question is just how much? What power do they have? And those are the sorts of questions that the court was addressing. And in this case, Judge Cooper determined that this particular member of Congress does have the power to make that challenge. And if it were to be appealed, I think that would be the key question.
KARL: You know, what’s striking to me in looking at these cases, and several, frankly, that have come over the past year and a half, is the courts aren’t just ruling against Trump, but they are effectively admonishing him and his lawyers, and the Justice Department lawyers.
ABRAMS: Well, here’s the thing.
ISGUR: Yes, we keep --
ABRAMS: -- the position that the admi -- the position the administration is taking here, it is to some degree indefensible in certain cases, right? Meaning -- Sarah pointed it out. When you look at the fundamentals of the legal question, they're very hard positions to defend. And I think that's why there's a lot of frustration from the judge.
And so when Donald Trump says, for example, look, you know, no one has treated -- had been treated as unfairly as me, the response to that is -- well, no one's kind of done the sorts of things that you're doing. It kind of cuts both ways.
KARL: Sarah, quickly.
ISGUR: Again, you know, the courts here, we've been dragging them into these partisan fights because we're not actually expecting Congress to do its job and we're allowing a president, frankly, not to do his job.
And so, the courts keep putting -- pulled into these political fights we have, these culture wars we have. It's not their role. And frankly, it's undermining the legitimacy, I think, of the courts moving forward.
KARL: All right. Sarah Isgur, Dan Abrams, thank you both.
All right. Let's bring in New Jersey Democratic Senator Cory Booker.
Let's start right there with these rulings against the president. What is your belief of the significance here, and Sarah's point there, that it's Congress that should be providing the oversight on this, but Congress hasn't been doing that?
SEN. CORY BOOKER, (D) NEW JERSEY: Yeah, I agree with her. The Republican-controlled Congress keeps laying down for this president.
Let's take this slush fund, for example. It's not a $2 billion slush fund. It is a $1.776 billion slush fund. And what that means is he's harkening back to our founding.
Now, we fought a revolution to stop exactly this, a ruler from taking public funds and doing whatever they want with no checks and balances. This president is giving us a master's class in our own democracy by tearing it down.
This is ridiculous that a president should be able to appropriate money to himself, Congress's job, and then give it out to people who beat police officers on January 6th.
So I'm going to be doing what I've been doing the last couple of weeks, which is reaching out to my Republican colleagues. I'm in good conversations right now about doing things in a bipartisan way. We've had a Republican Congress that has laid down, bent over for this president for too long.
And as he harkens and tries to drag up the memories of 250 years ago, this is the very reason why every American should be rallying together to stop him from trashing our Constitution.
KARL: And just before Congress went on the Memorial Day recess, we did see some Republicans standing up on this, particularly those that aren't coming back largely because they've been frozen out, you know, by Trump. Cassidy lost his -- his Republican primary in Louisiana. I mean, now Cornyn is going to be coming back. He's now a lame duck as well.
Are you -- are you expecting that there's going to be more Republican opposition? What are these conversations you're having?
BOOKER: I am absolutely expecting that. And look, in private conversations, people are -- Republicans will express how aghast they are at the behavior of -- galled they are. I mean, look at this. The president took one of our sacred memorials to an assassinated president and slapped his name on it.
What's next? The Trump-Lincoln Memorial? God bless America.
He’s putting his name on our -- he wants to put his name on our money, on our passports, on our park passes. And when it's not, when the courts stop him, he acts like a petulant child and literally says in a rant that “I'm going to take my marbles and go home”. And in other words, “I already wrecked this institution by almost bankrupting it because acts were pulling out and now I'm going to do nothing with it and let it languish.”
We have to stop him, and it's about time that Republicans realize that they took an oath to the Constitution and not to Donald Trump.
KARL: Well, let's pick it up there, because there are two things there. One is the Kennedy Center, and he seems to be saying, “Okay, I'm going to push it. It's Congress's problem now.”
What does that mean? Do you have any idea what this means for the Kennedy Center leadership right now?
BOOKER: Yeah, it's what Trump has done. We've seen it in New Jersey. This guy has wrecked businesses, wrecked casinos. This president's life is a testimony to failures.
And now he took an institution that had lots of acts scheduled and alike, and when he slapped his name on it, it started having severe financial problems. And then he says, OK, it is dwindling to a close. I'm going to close it anyway, and I'm going to raise money to do something about it.
And so, this is who we have at the head of our nation right now, somebody who is acting like an out-of-control child and not somebody who has thoughtful, bipartisan ways, democratic ways of getting things done.
KARL: And --
BOOKER: And the reason why this is happening, you said this, is because of a Congress that is letting him do so. We have the power to check him, and we're not using it.
KARL: And on this issue of the 250th anniversary of America, you know, you had these performers that have canceled. They don't -- they didn't want to -- they -- perform at the celebration on The Mall. And now Trump is saying he’s going to turn it into a Make America Great Again rally, where the entertainment’s going to be Donald Trump.
What are you telling people? What should be -- how should this anniversary -- it’s a huge moment in the country’s -- in the country’s history, how should this be celebrated? What -- how do you prevent this from turning into simply a partisan affair?
BOOKER: Yes, I mean, this is the problem with Trump. He’s a divider in chief. And what I’m hoping people are seeing in this is, is not his intention, but reminding us what American history has always been about. It’s been about the power of the people being greater than the people in power. That we’re not a nation of kings, princes, or rulers, but of Americans who, when they see power being used unjustly, whether it’s the labor movement, the abolitionist movement, civil rights movement, the story of America is Americans standing up against authoritarian figures and making our democracy more robust.
This is one of those moments where we have a man that is unfortunately reminding us of the dangers of a democracy when you have an out of control president. And what the -- I think the education moment is, is the only way he’s ultimately going to be stopped is if more people stand up and speak up. That’s how this nation was founded.
KARL: So --
BOOKER: That’s how we’ve advanced through crises before. And that’s what’s needed now.
KARL: So, how important is it for Democrats, in your view, to win back control of the Senate, and how involved are you going to be in this effort?
BOOKER: Well, you say it's Democrats, but I think in this election a lot of people are seeing more is on this ballot than right or left. It’s really about right or wrong. If Congress is refusing to check the president, if Congress is surrendering its war powers to the president, the powers of the purse to the president. If this president is calling out by name judges that don’t rule against him, attacking the judicial branch, what are we going to do? We need to put people in place in Congress that are going to do our constitutional duty that we swore an oath to do, checks and balances, oversight and accountability.
And so, I am going to do everything I can. I’ll be running up and down the state of New Jersey because I’m on the ballot, but all around this country saying, as they are attacking voting rights, as they are doing mid-decade redistricting to try to cheat and create an outcome that preserves power for people that might even be in the minority, but still hold the House. All of this is an assault on what our ancestors fought for.
KARL: So --
BOOKER: As I said, when I went down to Birmingham and Montgomery, this is our ancestors looking down and asking us, what will we do in a moral moment in our country, like so many of them sacrificed and bled for?
KARL: One of the marquee Senate races, of course, is in Maine, where the Democratic nominee, presumptive nominee, is Graham Platner. And a lot of allegations against Graham Platner, including the very latest, a controversy that “The Wall Street Journal” has reported on, alleging that Platner’s wife, Amy, flagged sexually explicit texts between Platner and a half dozen other women to the campaign during the vetting period. And in a video posted on X, his wife Amy said, they love each other deeply, they have a great marriage, and they’ve been getting counseling.
But let me ask you, do you have concerns with the weight of all these controversies that it may jeopardize Democratic hopes to get that Senate seat in Maine?
BOOKER: Yes, I have concerns. That guy has questions to answer. And that’s what campaigns are for. But when I go all over New Jersey and see hundreds and hundreds of thousands of New Jerseyans losing their health care and millions more seeing their health care costs go up, as I have families who say I can’t afford gas for my car and child care for my children, I know that so much is riding on Democrats taking control of the Senate. That this election, if we do not get the votes necessary to take care of the House and the Senate, we will continue to have an out-of-control president.
And I’m going to tell you right now is he is a lame duck president. He’s becoming more and more dangerous. Just look overseas at the war we’re in, the lives being lost, the billions being spent, and now he is shamefully trying to crawl back and try to get us back to where we were before the war even started. This man is dangerous, and it’s time that we take back the Senate. And that’s what I’m focused on.
KARL: All right, Cory Booker of New Jersey, thank you for joining us.
Up next, is a deal in sight with Iran. And when can Americans expect any relief at the pump? We’ll ask the president’s top economic advisor in two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KARL: The Trump administration said talks are ongoing on an agreement to extend the ceasefire with Iran and finally open the Strait of Hormuz. But with the strait still shut down, the pain for Americans is being felt every day.
Here's ABC's Elizabeth Schulze.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH SCHULZE, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This week, the stock market soared to new records and oil prices dropped on optimism the Iran war will end soon. But with gas prices still near four-year highs, American consumers' attitudes about the economy are at the lowest level in recent history. As the "Wall Street Journal" put it, "The stock market has never been so good when people have felt so bad."
AMANDA HILTON, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: We live paycheck to paycheck.
SCHULZE (voice-over): For single mom Amanda Hamilton in Kentucky, the spike in gas prices is taking a heavy toll.
HAMILTON: There's a huge disconnect between just the regular Joe at work. You know, like just everyday Americans and those who hold the power to make the changes that need to actually happen for prices to be lower.
SCHULZE: A disconnect between the people in charge and people like you.
HAMILTON: Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
SCHULZE (voice-over): The national average for a gallon of gas stands at $4.30, down twenty cents from last week, but up $1.36 in the three months since the start of the war. New data from Moody's Analytics shows the typical household has now spent an extra nearly $450 on fuel expenses since the war began.
RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: With gas prices that are still high across the country, people are paying more for travel. Does that give you more urgency to make a deal? Why doesn't it?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'll tell you the primary urgency I have. I said this, it wasn't covered properly, but the primary urgency is that we can't let Iran have a nuclear weapon.
SCHULZE (voice-over): The president has called the economic pain from the war peanuts, dismissing concerns it might cost him in the midterms and pointing to recent Republican primary wins.
TRUMP: I don't care about the midterms. Look what happened last night. That was the prelude to the midterms. People understand it.
SCHULZE (voice-over): But with inflation now at a three-year high going up faster than Americans' average wages, this week the Senate's top Republican took a different stance.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): We can do two things at one time and focus clearly on the economic issues that I think are going to be front and center for a lot of the American people when they vote.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KARL: All right, I'm joined now by Trump White House economic adviser, Kevin Hassett.
Kevin, thank you for joining us.
KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL DIRECTOR: Good morning, Jon.
KARL: Are you concerned about that disconnect that we saw there between, you know, the stock market is on fire, hitting new records every week, it seems, and Americans struggling with high gas prices, high inflation?
HASSETT: Well, I think that the report that we just listened to did put its finger on the scale of negativity, ignoring a lot of really positive news. But, for sure, gas prices are high. They're not quite as high as they were peak under Joe Biden, but they're high. And a lot of other things are going down.
But, you know, one of the things I've noticed here at the White House is, whatever piece of consumer price that is looking like it's a little bit disappointing, it's the only thing we talk about. So, you guys, that first month that I came here, the only thing you wanted to talk about was egg prices because they were high because of the Avian flu. Egg prices are down 85 percent.
What you need to do is smooth through the ups and downs, look at what's happening to real wages. So that was actually a factual error in the report because I actually, you know, printed out the latest real-wage numbers here.
But if you look at it, because there are more people working and because the stock market’s moving, profits are high, and that’s feeding through into wage and salaries -- workers’ salaries, that we’ve got like the typical manufacturing worker. So far, their real income adjusted for inflation is up $2,268. For a manufacturing worker, it’s $3,000. For a mining worker, it’s $4,500.
And so -- so on balance, real incomes, real wages are going up.
KARL: But are you saying Americans are not hurting? I mean, we’re hearing that, not just -- I mean -- a whole bunch of economic indicators, but just talking to people.
HASSETT: Well -- well, there’s -- actually --
KARL: I mean, people seem anxious and uneasy about the economy, don’t they?
HASSETT: Well, look, in the end, people look at their wallets. They decide how to vote. And if they look at their wallets and look at how much money they have after, you know, the increase in prices, they’re going to find that they have a lot more money.
And the one -- other thing I could say is that the consumer sentiment index that was cited is a Michigan survey that’s extremely partisan. We talked -- I talked about this on TV last week, that basically -- when Joe Biden was there, the Democrats in the survey had -- they were euphoric. Their index was way above 100 percent during stagflation. Right now, it’s the lowest on record, something like 30 percent.
And so, when you say that American consumers are really down in the dumps, what it is, is Democrats are in the dumps. Republicans have actually stayed around 80 percent on that survey all the way through.
And so, there’s another measure, consumer confidence, which the conference board puts out, which is about an all-time high. So, if we’re going to say, oh, Americans are this or Americans are that, we should at least like truthfully look at the data and think about what the different signals are for the different data.
KARL: Well, I mean, recounting what I'm hearing and what a lot of people are hearing.
But let me ask you about inflation, because we had the Bureau of Economic Analysis came out this week -- this is the Fed’s go-to gauge for inflation -- saying that inflation increased to 3.8 percent in April.
Are you -- are you concerned about that? I mean, we’re seeing, you know -- and, obviously, a lot’s going to depend on what happens in the Middle East. But are you concerned about this nagging inflation and it might actually force the Fed to increase interest rates?
HASSETT: No. You know, first of all, you know, you’re exactly right, the energy prices are high, and they’re high around the world. Gas prices are high, and that’s extremely frustrating, and it’s something that we’re working on doing lots of different things to minimize the disruption. And hopefully, again, the problem of the Gulf will be over soon, and then things will go back to normal.
Absolutely true that the top line number, which includes energy, is a high number. But if you look at core, the history of this is, the energy shocks don’t usually peak through the core. That’s why, at the Fed, you know how they always talk about, well, core inflation this, core inflation that.
Well, actually, as a consumer, you care about overall inflation. But the reason they talk about core is that’s the central tendency of what’s going to happen over the next year or two.
And if you look, at the Cleveland Fed, you probably go here all the time, Jon, but if you don’t, the Cleveland Fed has an nowcaster for CPI, what they think the next month is going to be. And they’ve got core CPI at 0.23, which I think is about right, because that’s what our experience is, is that these energy stocks, painful while they happen, do not feed through to core.
KARL: So, I know you’re hoping that there’s going to be a deal to reopen the Strait, and maybe that will come really soon. We’ve been hearing for a while that it’s coming soon, but maybe it’s going to happen soon.
But let me ask you, if it doesn’t happen, if the Strait of Hormuz remains closed and those tankers aren’t getting bad (ph), how -- what do you think happens to gas prices and oil prices?
HASSETT: Well, what’s going on, I think that you would agree, is that oil and gas prices have surprised, if by not being nearly as high as a lot of people forecasted, because in part people have found ways to adjust. You know, there’s a big pipeline in Saudi Arabia that’s piping out more oil without having to go through the Gulf.
KARL: Right.
HASSETT: And that kind of adjustment has made it so that the price hasn’t gone to the 150s or the 200s, as some people forecasted.
You know, I expect that the way to think about it is, when we get the Straits open and now there is actually a lot more traffic going through the Straits than there was two weeks ago. When you get the Straits open, then it’s about 300 nautical miles per day for one of those big tankers. And so, the people in Pakistan and India that have refineries that are mostly shut down --
KARL: Yeah.
HASSETT: -- they’re going to get their oil. They’ll turn the refineries up, and then refined product prices will go down globally, and then it will spread from place to place.
But, you know, really, it’s like a month or two until everything gets back to –
KARL: I mean, I mean, I --
(CROSSTALK)
HASSETT: -- to the refineries.
KARL: That’s if the Strait reopens, and actually the International Energy Agency said it could take several months before the flow really gets going and prices come down.
But the ExxonMobil senior vice president, Neil Chapman, I'm sure you saw what he said --
HASSETT: Uh-huh.
KARL: -- to investors on a conference call this week.
He said, “We’re approaching unheard of inventory levels. I mean really, really low levels. You can debate whether it’s going to hit those really low levels in two weeks or three weeks. But once you get to that point, you’ll see the price shoot up.”
So I mean, the concern here is, I'm sure you must share it, that if this -- if a deal isn't struck, we could actually see those significantly higher levels of not just oil prices, but of course, gas prices.
HASSETT: Right. Well, we track inventories every day. We started out with billions, billions of barrels of private and government inventories, and we still are in the billions. And so, there's plenty of runway, but also, you know, there's a lot of pressure on Iran to finally agree to the president's terms.
You know, one way to think about it is that if you look at the Rial, you know, half a dozen years ago, then one would -- IRR 4,000 of them would buy $1. Right now, it's something like IRR 1.4 million of them buys $1.
KARL: The Iranian currency.
HASSETT: Yeah.
KARL: Well, their inflation is higher than ours.
(LAUGH)
HASSETT: But it also puts a lot of pressure on them, like the people on fixed incomes and so on are really suffering.
KARL: Well, well, Kevin Hassett, you remain ever optimistic. Thank you for joining us this morning.
HASSETT: Great to be here, Jon.
KARL: Up next, with just five months until the November midterms, which Senate seats are most likely to flip? The Roundtable takes that on. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN, (R-TX): After a public service career lasting more than four decades and 18 consecutive campaign wins, tonight, we've come up short in this primary runoff.
KEN PAXTON, (R) TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: Tonight, we've just sent a Texas-sized message to Washington.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
PAXTON: I said it in March, and I'll say it again now. Today, change was on the ballot and change won.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: All right. Ken Paxton easily defeated incumbent Senator, John Cornyn in this week's Republican Senate runoff in Texas. So, does Paxton's Democratic opponent, James Talarico, have a shot at turning Texas blue? The Roundtable debates that and a lot more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KARL: Turning Texas blue. The roundtable debates that and a lot more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KARL: And let’s bring in the roundtable.
Former DNC chair Donna Brazile, Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign manager, Faiz Shakir, former North Carolina Congressman Patrick McHenry and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.
So, let’s just start with the midterms. What we heard from Paxton and Cornyn. Cornyn, after that very gracious concession speech, put out a statement. He said he was sharing “an old but apt fable,” essentially about a scorpion who asks a frog to carry him across the river. And the scorpion is -- you know, the frog’s concerned the scorpion would sting him. But the scorpion said, why would I do that? You know, I would drown myself. And then he says, “midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies, I am sorry, but I couldn’t help myself. It’s my character.”
So, you know, John Cornyn, Governor Christie.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I do.
KARL: Can you please help me decipher the meaning of this? Who is the scorpion?
CHRISTIE: The scorpion, of course, is Donald Trump. And unfortunately for John Cornyn, he’s the frog.
But John Cornyn should have known he was the frog a long time ago. And what he did, instead of standing up for what was right and what he believed in, he absolutely prostituted himself for Donald Trump in the holding up the art of the deal on his social media, kissing Donald Trump’s rear end in every way that he possibly could, thinking that somehow that would make the scorpion not sting the frog. It never does.
I’ll give you one quick vignette, John. When John Kelly became White House chief of staff in the first term, he called me and asked me, how do I deal with Donald Trump personally? Everyone says you know him as well as anybody. And I said to John Kelly, here’s the deal, pal. Today you’re trading at 100 cents on a dollar. You will trade to zero.
KARL: Yes.
CHRISTIE: It’s only a question of how long. John Cornyn learned what trading to zero meant last week.
KARL: To be fair, the frog, meaning Cornyn, was probably going to sink anyway. I think Trump’s endorsement came when it was clear Paxton was already going to win.
PATRICK MCHENRY, (R) FORMER NORTH CAROLINA CONGRESSMAN: That’s clear. He had problems. Let’s just rewind.
KARL: Yes.
MCHENRY: He’s a Texas senator arguing against Texas’s position on guns.
KARL: Yes.
MCHENRY: So, he has had long term problems. It was not a surprise that he had problems going into this election cycle with the Republican base. It’s also representative of why he was not elected Senate Republican leader.
So, he walks in with problems and also makes the pitch, I’m your savior in Texas. We would not have had Ken Paxton had John Cornyn not run for re-election.
This does represent problems, though. It does mean that Republicans will have to spend at least something in Texas, which complicates the rest of the Senate map.
Even if Talarico is odd and strange, you have to go convince the Texas voters and spend money on that.
KARL: So I'm going to bring it over to this side of the table, but very quickly, do you think that Republicans should be worried that if they don't rally in Texas, that they could actually lose with Paxton?
MCHENRY: I don't think they lose, but I think they have to spend money. And you have to keep your eye on the prize here, especially in an election cycle where people are unhappy about the economy and the president's approval rating among the voters you need in a midterm are not where they need to be.
KARL: Donna?
BRAZILE: You know it's bad when the Republicans have to scrub the website and take away all of the wonderful, delicious texts and messages that the Republicans, you know, basically scored against Mr. Paxton.
Luckily, the Democrats got to learn how to cut and paste because we're going to use that against Mr. Paxton.
Mr. Cornyn, you know, I’m not -- I'm not the frog or the scorpion in this case.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: So say you, Donna.
BRAZILE: Look, I'm the snake.
(LAUGHTER)
BRAZILE: Goodbye, good riddance.
But Democrats have a real shot at Texas. And I know I say that probably every four years, every six years, but Beto O'Rourke put together a terrific organization. And if Democrats can patch up some of the holes that we saw in the 2024 cycle with young voters, with Hispanic voters, I think Mr. Talarico has a shot at it.
The first thing he should do is ignore all of the attacks on his manhood, whatever the hell that means. He should also focus on the economy. He should focus on what workers care about in the great state of Texas.
But I think Mr. Talarico has a shot at it.
FAIZ SHAKIR, BERNIE SANDERS 2020 CAMPAIGN MANAGER & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: There's a populist mood in this country, and that's why James Talarico is the nominee. He beat Jasmine Crockett in that primary because of an anger towards the elite and towards wanting to tax the rich, taking on billionaires. He sounded like Bernie Sanders in that primary.
And if you can maintain that coming through into the general, you got in Texas, I think a lot of working class people who are upset. They don't have health care. Their wages are falling faster than the prices for many goods.
And if he can channel the sense that I am prepared to take on corporate greed, corporate exploitation against Ken Paxton, who everyone generally knows is corrupt --
KARL: Yeah.
SHAKIR: -- I think he's got a real shot.
If you -- if you're within two to three points, which I believe that race will be, then it's all turn up, as Patrick mentioned.
KARL: So I want to ask you larger, look at the Senate seats that seem to be in play. We may be surprised by some that are not on this list, but look at look at the list. You've got two -- where the Democrats are playing defense, Georgia and Michigan.
But then you've got Maine, Ohio, North Carolina, Alaska, Texas -- I've heard some even say Iowa.
Let me ask you, Faiz. What do you think are the top targets that Democrats can win?
SHAKIR: Well, certainly Maine. I mean, Maine, if you look at that map right there, the one that Democrats are outpacing the most against the Republican right now.
KARL: Even with these allegations against Graham Platner?
SHAKIR: The allegations are that -- when the guy served four tours and duties, the salt of the earth, the real, real American who -- you talk about make America great again. Here's a guy who signs up, says, I'll raise my hand. I don't like this war, but I'm going to go fight for my comrades.
And yes, he has PTSD. He suffers through -- struggling marriage. OK? What, you want to fault him?
He's a real working class person who's trying to improve the nation's solid service ethic to improve other people's lives. So, yeah, I'll stand by him.
KARL: So you're saying Maine?
FAIZ: Maine. You look at Nebraska.
KARL: Nebraska?
FAIZ: Nebraska is a surprising one. That is a --
(CROSSTALK)
KARL: Dan Osborn, the independent.
FAIZ: Osborn ran once before. His name ID is high. You got a mechanic against a billionaire in Pete Ricketts. I think that's got a real shot. That's the one that's the dark horse.
Alaska, where Mary Peltola is performing very well against Sullivan, I think would do very well.
Obviously, Ohio, Sherrod Brown, and Roy Cooper in North Carolina, obviously.
KARL: What do you think?
MCHENRY: I think any reasonable analysis, the map shows Maine is a challenge for Republicans and North Carolina. Both -- both very expensive.
North Carolina is going to be a $400 million race this cycle. Roughly speaking, you have a two-term governor in North Carolina, Roy Cooper. The Democrats did a nice job of recruiting -- recruiting somebody who had a more moderate image than what you saw in Maine and these other states like Texas. But the issue in Maine, just like in Texas, is they have an unvetted candidate.
And it turns out the guy with the Nazi tattoo turns out to be a pretty bad guy in Maine, which is the benefit of --
FAIZ: A tattoo that was skull and crossbones, not a Nazi tattoo.
MCHENRY: OK, we can quibble about whether or not how Nazi the Nazi tattoo --
KARL: He did have his tattoo removed.
MCHENRY: So --
KARL: Whatever. I mean -- yeah.
MCHENRY: But this is emblematic of his problems. And Maine voters will have a say about it.
But Maine and Alaska are these outlying states, very different than the rest of the map, based off of media market, based off of incumbency and the particulars of the states.
So we all -- Republicans always have to watch these states. But Susan Collins is battle-tested.
North Carolina -- these things are very expensive in North Carolina. They develop very late and they're very expensive. So the North Carolina race will have to watch very closely.
But I don't give Democrats great hope of getting the majority in the Senate, even sitting where we are today.
KARL: What about you, Chris?
CHRISTIE: Look, I think North Carolina is over.
KARL: Yeah.
CHRISTIE: I've never seen Roy Cooper lose a race, and he's not going to lose this one. I think Maine is a much, much tougher race for the Democrats than what they're talking about right now. Susan Collins is someone who always figures out a way, and the last thing I'd say to you is they shouldn't waste their money in Texas.
You know, the Democrats, it is fool's gold to go after Texas. You should be spending more money in, Alaska and anywhere, I think, you have a much better shot. But the media is going to want to pull them towards Texas because it is Texas.
Look, Ken Paxton wouldn't be my choice for United States Senate, but the fact of the matter is, I don't vote in Texas, and the people who do, will probably send Ken Paxton to the Senate.
BRAZILE: What you have to figure out, Jon, is that Donald Trump is underwater in Maine, I think 16 points. He's underwater in Michigan by 14 points. He's underwater in Texas three points. In Iowa, seven points. And in Alaska, five points.
So I think Democrats have a shot at winning the Senate because Mr. Trump is so unpopular across the board.
KARL: Can I ask you, though, to both of you, the polling also shows that Democrats are unpopular. I mean the -- let's look at the New York Times-Siena poll last week showed that even among Democrats, only 55 percent are satisfied with the party, 44 percent dissatisfied. And Democratic leading independents, only 31 percent satisfied, 65 percent of Democratic leading independent unhappy, dissatisfied with the Democratic.
SHAKIR: When you look at -- you take Maine for instance, you know, some people want to call him a Nazi, people in Maine don't think that. He's not a Nazi. His popularity is high. If he's good -- done thousands of town halls, he's going to keep doing them.
KARL: He chased the former governor out of the race.
SHAKIR: Susan Collins wasn't doing any town halls. His popularity is high. You take Talarico, his popularity is high. You look at Roy Cooper, his popularity is high. These are all people who are (inaudible) Mary Peltola. Her popularity is high. Why?
It's outperforming the Democratic brand because they are seen as people with a vision and an agenda of what they're going to do if they come into Congress. And I think that for many Democrats, they need an agenda. Those people, those candidates have one.
KARL: All right, we've got to take a quick break. The Roundtable is going to stick around.
Up next, could Donald Trump end up on a $250 bill? We'll look at Trump's push to mark -- put his mark on the 250th anniversary of America when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KARL: America is about to turn 250, and President Trump is putting his mark on the party. Nowhere is that more clearer than at the White House this week, where a UFC fighting ring is going up for a June 14th cage match.
That's right, June 14th, Trump's 80th birthday, just yards away from the rubble of the demolished East Wing, where the new ballroom is beginning to take shape. And next door at the Treasury Department, officials are busy with yet another Trump-centric idea for the 250th celebration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL (voice-over): President Trump has been on a mission to remake Washington.
TRUMP: Washington, D.C. is now a safe and beautiful place, and it's only going to get more beautiful.
KARL (voice-over): He tore down the East Wing to make room for his ballroom. He wants a massive 250-foot arch outside of Arlington National Cemetery. He's painting the Reflecting Pool blue. Some of his projects have worked. Outside Union Station he turned a graffiti-scarred eyesore into a real showpiece, a working fountain and all. And as he's done for decades, Trump is putting his name and his face on all of it.
This week, we learned he wants his face somewhere no living American has landed in over a century. U.S. currency.
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I don't think that There's anything untoward about having the president of the United States, the person who was president of the United States on the 250th anniversary bill.
KARL (voice-over): The Treasury Department is drawing up a $250 bill for America's 250th with Trump's portrait on it. That's on top of a push for a $1 dollar Trump coin. Never mind the law barring living people from U.S. currency.
There's a bill pushed by some of Trump's allies to change that law, but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon. But it fits the pattern. Trump, front and center on America's birthday.
TRUMP: I pledge to give America the most spectacular birthday party the world has ever seen.
KARL (voice-over): The party wasn't Trump's idea. Plans for a 250th celebration have been in the works for more than a decade, spearheaded by a bipartisan group called America 250. Trump has largely shoved that group aside for a new one, run by his allies, Freedom 250.
The planned festivities include a national tour of founding documents, including Washington's 1778 Oath of Allegiance and the original engraving of the Declaration of Independence, plus a UFC cage fight to kick it all off on June 14th. That's Trump's 80th birthday. And yes, the money managers who handle Trump's investments bought stock in UFC's parent company earlier this year, just weeks before he started promoting the White House fight.
TRUMP: This will be the greatest show on earth.
KARL (voice-over): But one of the marquee ideas, the Great American State Fair, a two-week takeover of the National Mall, was mired in controversy this week as performers started pulling out, saying the whole thing had gotten too political.
Critics say Trump is celebrating Trump as much, maybe even more, than he's celebrating America. Just look at Freedom 250's own home page. Among the handful of presidents featured are George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Donald Trump, the only modern president displayed as prominently as Washington himself.
And just yesterday, Trump reacted to the performers dropping out by saying he would cancel the professional entertainers and instead he would be the entertainment with a giant Make America Great Again rally on the mall.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KARL (on-camera): All right, the Roundtable is back.
So, Donna, on a serious note, I mean, what -- how does the country face this celebration of America 250 with all of this going on?
BRAZILE: I've been shocked by the level of vanity projects across the city. Look, this is a -- as I have said repeatedly, D.C. is a wonderful city, but it's a city beyond the monuments with great, vibrant neighborhoods, with wonderful people from all walks of life. And the fact that the president has chosen to put his likeness, you know, on the mall and other special places, you know, Chris, I'm one of these folks that believe that we could pay a lot of young people who are, quote-unquote, "facing unemployment" right now.
We could pay them minimum wage to do some of the, quote-unquote, "jobs" that the president is giving contractors, double, triple the amount of money. I mean, putting an extra gold leaf paint, you can't get that at Home Depot. You can't get it at Lowe's. You got to go get it at some special -- the president cares more about himself than the American people who are suffering.
I would hope that we would celebrate this occasion as Americans because we need to come together around the ideal. So rather than celebrate his birthday and God bless him and Happy 80th birthday, Mr. President, I am going to celebrate Juneteenth as freedom delivered, not freedom promised.
KARL: But, Chris, I mean, there is something -- I mean, he -- about putting this as a priority. This is a great celebration. I'm old enough, you are too, to remember the 200th -- you know, and he's cleaning up Washington. Is there anything redeeming here that you see? Or are we going to be mired in a partisan bickering over who is running the celebrations?
CHRISTIE: Look, I think that really what's going to happen is, I just got a notice in the mail at my house about the 250th birthday parade in my hometown.
KARL: Yeah.
CHRISTIE: Americans are not going to be focused on what's happening on the mall in Washington, D.C. They're going to be focused on what's happening in their hometown, in their places, and the way they're going to celebrate. Of course, that's not what the president wants. He wants it to be focused on him.
I remember him telling me one time, you know, I'm really the second-best president in the history of the country. He said, just slightly behind Lincoln. And I said, what about George Washington, Mr. President? And he goes, overrated. He said there really wasn't much to do back then.
I mean, this is the way the guy views himself. And you know this Jon, but most Americans, I suspect, on July 4th and the days leading up to it, won't be focused on that. They're going to be focused on the history of the country.
MCHENRY: But the facts remain. So he's raised money. He's fixed fountains. He's restored statues. Parks are now accessible here in Washington, D.C. That'll live far beyond this presidency. That should be a public good, and I think is a public good.
KARL: And it is, I mean, it's a priority for him to fix this stuff and needs fixing up.
(CROSSTALK)
MCHENRY: The 250th anniversary is fantastic.
KARL: Yeah.
MCHENRY: And that should be beyond politics. But everything is so political now. Fixing all the stuff in the National Mall, what I can say, and I agree, Jon, Washington is a beautiful city. But when Americans come here to visit, they are shocked at how grubby D.C. was.
And the president restoring it is something, it's an obsession the American people should be pretty happy with, that he's going to leave this place better and safer than he found it. Unexpected, I would say.
(CROSSTALK)
FAIZ SHAKIR, BERNIE SANDERS 2020 CAMPAIGN MANAGER & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: My reaction to watching your good segment, we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, and that we're endowed by a creator with certain inalienable rights, that among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
MCHENRY: Amen.
SHAKIR: To secure these rights, governments are constituted among men, and that these governments constitute their power --
KARL: All right.
SHAKIR: -- from the consent of the government.
KARL: I think that's the perfect place to end this segment. Thanks, everyone. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KARL: All right, that is all for today. Thank you for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and have a great day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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