'This Week' Transcript 6-21-26: Energy Secretary Chris Wright & Susan Rice
This is a rush transcript of "This Week" airing Sunday, June 21.
A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, June 21, 2026 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.
JONATHAN KARL, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: And I'm joined now by Energy Secretary Chris Wright.
Secretary Wright, thank you for being here.
As we sit here now, the vice president is in Switzerland for meetings with the Iranians. What do you expect to come from this first round of talks?
ENERGY SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: I think this first candid dialogue will set out what the Iranian goals are and what they think the tradeoffs they might have to make are. We've just never been in this situation before. The U.S. military, both in the actions to destroy the Iranian military capabilities and to force a way through the Strait of Hormuz without any dialogue, have just put the Iranians in a massively different situation. They don't have the leverage they've always had in talks before.
KARL: Well, let me ask you about the Strait, because the vice president said the Strait is open, the Iranians said it's closed. And we heard that 55 ships came through yesterday. What is the status? Are we partially opened? Is there really -- when do we get back to the levels that we had before the war?
WRIGHT: Well, 55 ships two days ago, as you said, 67 went through yesterday on an oil and oil products volumes about equal to where we were before the war.
But there's three channels through the straits. There's the middle normal navigational channel that, unfortunately, the Iranians have mined. So that needs to be de-mined. Then there's a separate route up north by the Iranian islands that they've tried to force ships through. And then there's a southern route that the United States military has been escorting ships through for several weeks.
And I think it's that returning flows back towards normal without any cooperation at all from Iran, that's the leverage President Trump used to get the Iranians to come to the table and realize they're going to lose all the cards in their hand. Maybe they can make a deal that brings some benefit to Iran. Maybe they can't.
KARL: So we've seen oil prices have come down pretty significantly even before the reopening started. How soon do you expect gas prices to get down to the levels that we saw before this war?
WRIGHT: Oh, I've got long out of the business of predicting oil or gasoline prices, but they will continue to head down. Flows of oil and natural gas through the strait have already returned to normal, and they will continue that way, whatever happens with the negotiations with the Iranians. We've got growing American production, surging production in Venezuela. We've got cooperation with all the other energy producers of the world. So I think Americans can expect continued declines in energy prices.
KARL: But let me -- the other question is, what happens if it falls apart? You just said, if it falls apart, we'll still see declining prices. But I want to play you something that President Trump said at the G7. He seems to have President Herbert Hoover on his mind.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The one president I did not want to be was the late, great Herbert Hoover.
Rather than possibly going into a depression, rather than having your favorite president be Herbert Hoover, was always the one I didn't want to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: I mean, what he's saying there, and he has said a few different times, is that if we go back to a state of war with Iran, we face the risk of global depression. Is that not true?
WRIGHT: The president -- no, I don’t -- no, but look, the president has been advised all along, despite the media proclamations, that there was enormous risk to energy flows to engage the Iran’s -- the Iranians on their nuclear program in a military fashion. But he simply was unwilling to leave to his successor in nuclear-armed Iran. That's just, there's just no greater risk to energy prices, to the economy of the world, than in nuclear-armed Iran.
He knew he was going to drive up energy prices in the short run. He had the courage to take the action anyway, to destroy their air force, their navy, most of their nuclear program, and a lot of their military-industrial complex. I think it's a massive benefit to future generations.
We knew that was a risk to energy prices. We've paid the price with higher energy prices in the midterm. And then we have worked with our military focused on restoring flow with or without the Iranians to reduce their leverage and get to a good answer.
But he knows the risk he's playing with. He took those chances and the Americans win by it.
KARL: And he seemed to be saying he didn't want to, he couldn't go further because the risks would have been even greater.
But let me move to another thing. He -- when he first engaged in this, when he first launched this war, he said that one of the key objectives, and this was repeated by Marco Rubio several times as well, was to obliterate Iran's missile program. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are going to destroy their missiles and raze their missile industry to the ground. It will be totally, again, obliterated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: He's saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If other countries have them, it's a little bit unfair for them not to have some. A ballistic missile is not the same thing as what we're talking about, what we talked to earlier. But if Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and they all have some, I would say in relative proportion, I think, it's okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: So, how did we go from saying that the objective of the war was to destroy their missile program to saying that they've got a right to have missiles? Why the change?
WRIGHT: Well, look, I think it's a matter of degrees. We've probably degraded their ability to make missiles by 90 percent. That is a massive -- I think you could call that an obliteration of their missile-making industry.
But the president recognizes, if they have -- if they become a normal nation, and they become a citizen of the Gulf community, for them to have a modest amount of missiles, as he said, proportional to their neighbors, that’s not -- that's not an unreasonable end to aim for.
But in the meantime, they have been just massively more armed than all their neighbors. They've spent all of their money and their earnings from their energy industry to arm themselves to the teeth. That has been degraded massively.
But need it go to zero? No, it probably doesn't need to go to zero, is what the president's saying.
KARL: But let me ask you about what critics of this deal say that this is a windfall for the Iranians. I mean, they get to sell their oil now in the open markets using the banking system in a way they haven't been able to do for years. They're going to get frozen assets unfrozen, and they have the possibility of something much, much more if the nuclear agreement comes forward.
What do you say, this is really a gift to the Iranians, and they really haven't given up much of anything?
WRIGHT: Oh, Iranians have been selling oil most of the last 47 years. The first Trump administration crimped that down to only a half million barrels a day. They exported over one and a half million barrels a day during the entire Biden administration, which is what they're going to rebound to today.
That's all they're getting, is the ability to yet sell their oil again. We proved to them for two months we could cease them from selling a drop of oil, and that's important leverage. Now that's going to return back to where it was, but they're not going to get any of the other funds released, their own frozen funds released, unless there's progress, meaningful and provable progress in the nuclear talks.
And the large numbers that are thrown around, that's simply the carrot President Trump talks about. They become a normal nation again.
Will their neighbors invest to build infrastructure and welcome them to the community? Of course they will, but that's only if they return to a normal nation. They're a long way from today, but you've got to put that carrot out there. That's the aspiration.
KARL: All right. Secretary Wright, thank you very much.
WRIGHT: Thanks, Jon.
KARL: Appreciate it.
WRIGH: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
KARL: All right, take care. See you around.
//
KARL: And I'm joined now by former Obama National Security Advisor and Ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice. Ambassador Rice, thank you for being here.
SUSAN RICE, FORMER OBAMA NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Good to be with you. Happy Father's Day, Jon.
KARL: Thank you.
RICE: And to all the dads out there today.
KARL: Thank you very much.
I want to -- you called the memorandum of understanding a jaw-dropping, horrific surrender.
RICE: With reparations.
KARL: So what -- why is it so egregious?
RICE: It's egregious, Jon, because so many concessions were granted up front in this flimsy two-page memorandum of understanding that wouldn't normally and shouldn't have been granted until after there was not only a fully comprehensive deal to at least deal with their nuclear program, but also that those provisions that were negotiated had been agreed. So let me just explain to you some of the things that were conceded up front.
As the secretary just acknowledged, Iran, as of the signing of the agreement, so on Thursday, is now able to sell all of its oil and all of its oil products on the market unimpeded, and use that money to rebuild itself.
KARL: And use the banking system.
RICE: And use the banking system. Under the Obama nuclear deal, they couldn't have relief from oil sanctions until the deal was fully implemented, not just preliminarily agreed. Secondly, they get access to tens of billions of dollars of frozen assets in the very near term, within the next 60 days, contingent only upon the memorandum of understanding, this flimsy two-page document, being implemented.
That means essentially, once they've opened the Strait, they get all the access to their frozen assets without any constraint on how they spend it. In the Obama-era deal, they could only spend those frozen assets on humanitarian things, food and medicine. Now they can use it to fund their terrorist proxies.
Iran, thirdly, will now be able, after 60 days, to charge fees for the transit of ships through the Strait of Hormuz, something they could never have done before. They get $300 billion from the United States and our Gulf partners.
(CROSSTALK)
KARL: Now the administration says --
RICE: Once the deal is done.
KARL: Says none of that's going to come from the United States.
RICE: Well, that's not what the agreement says. It says the United States, with our Gulf partners, will ensure that they get that money when there's a final deal.
And then two other things, when the deal is done, they say all sanctions against Iran, bilateral and multilateral, will be lifted. Under the Obama deal, after they had fully implemented everything, it was only the nuclear related sanctions that were lifted.
KARL: That's --
RICE: And finally, one last point. The other crazy thing about this memorandum of understanding that sets us back enormously is that we commit to withdraw U.S. military forces from the vicinity of Iran. That means our bases in the Gulf. Are we walking away from the Middle East as a result of this deal?
KARL: The administration would say no. And they would say that the -- that those frozen assets, although I know exactly what it says in the memorandum of understanding, they say there has to be progress on the nuclear talks first. But let me ask you --
RICE: But that's not what the document says, Jon.
KARL: I understand. The -- most of our allies in the region seem to welcome this because it meant an end to the war. Isn't a weak peace agreement better than a resumption of a war, which I know you opposed from the start?
RICE: I oppose this war because it was a stupid war, and it was obvious that when you wage a stupid war, that every prior president had the wisdom to avoid, that you were going to end up with either bad outcomes or worse outcomes.
KARL: So this ends what you saw as a stupid war. Isn't that better --
RICE: It ends a stupid war continuing. That's --
KARL: -- than continuing --
RICE: You get bad outcomes or worse outcomes. This is a very bad outcome. I obviously think we shouldn't have been in this war in the first place, because it was obvious for decades that the only way to resolve this problem is through diplomacy. And now we're back to diplomacy with a far weaker hand. Yes, their military has been degraded, but Iran has now figured out they can use the Strait of Hormuz to hold us and the global economy hostage anytime they want. And they've been playing that game over the last 48 hours.
KARL: But just to make that point, because Ro Khanna, Democrat Ro Khanna said that he supports this agreement, even though he says it's a shadow of the one you helped negotiate with -- for President Obama helped put together for President Obama, but he says he supports this because it ends the war. And that's the important thing.
RICE: We shouldn't be in this situation, Jon. This was an extraordinary strategic blunder.
KARL: But we are in this situation.
RICE: We are in this situation, and we have suffered enormously. The American people have suffered. We've lost thirteen servicemen and women. We have paid over $50 billion of taxpayer money for a war we never should have waged. The American consumer is paying more than $50 billion in increased costs. Our standing in the world is weakened.
And we've shown that when the United States, the greatest military on the face of the planet, and the Israeli army -- the Israeli military throw the kitchen sink at Iran, they can left -- be left still standing, which weakens us globally.
KARL: Let me ask you -- one of the tragic things in all of this is the Iranian people, the Iranian opposition.
RICE: Absolutely.
KARL: Which rose up while you were in the Obama administration, and rose up again now, and have just been -- have just been brought down and see no hope.
Do you think we'll ever actually see reform and regime change -- or political reform in our lifetime for Iran?
(CROSSTALK)
RICE: We’re certain -- we're certainly -- we're certainly further away from that now than we have been for a long time.
First of all, the suffering of the Iranian people has been horrific in the context of this unnecessary conflict. And now, we have a supreme leader who's 30 years younger than his father, radical, in power indefinitely. And we've walked away. President Trump said, help is on the way to the Iranian people when they needed it most. And now we say we don't care.
KARL: So before you go, I want to ask you about the way President Trump and Vice President Vance have been talking about Israel and the Israelis.
Here, let's take a look at just what J.D. Vance said last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Donald J. Trump is the only head of state in the entire world who is sympathetic to the nation of Israel at this moment in time. And he happens to be the head of state of the world's superpower. If I was in the cabinet of the Israeli government, I might not be attacking the only powerful ally that I have anywhere left in the entire world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: First of all, is that an accurate description of the state affairs? That's an extraordinary statement. He said Trump is the only head of state sympathetic to the nation of Israel, that the United States is the only powerful ally that Israel has in the entire world.
Is that -- is that true?
RICE: You know, I think that was an extraordinary statement, and I'm sure it shocked a lot of people, particularly in Israel.
But, you know, one of the outcomes of this is, you know, as president -- as Prime Minister Netanyahu has himself publicly acknowledged on many occasions, he has tried to persuade many prior presidents to engage in war with Israel against Iran, and promising that that would result in regime change and an end to Iran posing any threat.
What we've got as a result of that war, which President Trump was the first to take the bait on, what is a strengthened Iran in terms of its geopolitical stature in the region, not militarily conventionally in the short term, but its nuclear program is fully intact. There is nothing in that agreement that requires that the nuclear material, the dust, as the president likes to call it, will be removed from Iran.
KARL: And can stay there.
RICE: It will -- they can stay there.
KARL: Or destroyed. It just has to be diluted.
RICE: And stay in place.
So, the Israelis have suffered the most because now -- you know, this administration, if you take the president and the vice president's words, has basically said to Israel, “Your concerns are not ours.”
KARL: All right. Ambassador Rice, thank you very much for joining us this morning.
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