'This Week' Transcript 1-11-26: Sen. Tina Smith & Sen. Rand Paul

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, January 11, 2026 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: President Trump flexes American military muscle overseas, and a deadly ICE shooting puts American cities on edge at home.

“THIS WEEK” starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Across the nation, anger builds after an ICE agent fatally shoots a mother in Minneapolis. Officials clash over how the deadly shooting unfolded.

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The idea that this was not justified is absurd.

JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR: To ICE, get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of Minneapolis.

RADDATZ: And federal authorities freeze out state law enforcement from the investigation.

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: It feels very, very difficult that we will get a fair outcome.

RADDATZ: This morning, Minnesota Senator Tina Smith on the fallout.

Plus, analysis from former acting ICE Director John Sandweg and former Ferguson, Missouri, police chief, Jason Armstrong.

The Trump doctrine.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't need international law. I'm not looking to hurt people.

RADDATZ: After ousting Nicolas Maduro, the president sets his sights on Venezuela's oil and ratchets up the pressure to control Greenland.

TRUMP: We are going to do something on Greenland, whether they like it or not.

RADDATZ: Sparking a bipartisan rebuke to rein him in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an insane plan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no support for any kind of forceful takeover for Greenland.

RADDATZ: We’ll speak with Republican Senator Rand Paul about Trump's latest threats.

And as protests against the Iranian regime escalate, we’ll look at (AUDIO GAP) Times,” David Sanger. All that and the week's politics with our powerhouse roundtable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's "THIS WEEK." Here now, Martha Raddatz.

RADDATZ: Good morning and welcome to “THIS WEEK.”

On a suburban Minneapolis street this week, a shooting that shocked the nation. Thirty-seven-year-old Renee Good, an American citizen and a mother of three, was killed by an ICE agent, one of as many as 2,000 agents deployed to the Twin Cities for immigration enforcement and fraud investigations, despite objections from state and local officials. The secretary of Homeland Security quickly deemed the shooting justified and labeled the woman killed a domestic terrorist. And Vice President J.D. Vance laid the blame on Good, saying it was a tragedy of her own making.

The shooting was caught on cameras from multiple angles, becoming the latest flashpoint in the national divide over the Trump administration’s policies and their real-world impact and prompting protests across the country. This morning, we’ll examine the fallout.

And we begin with ABC's Witt Johnson, who’s been reporting from Minneapolis this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHIT JOHNSON, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This morning, local officials urging protesters to remain peaceful as tensions escalate in response to that deadly shooting of a Minnesota woman by an ICE agent, as the latest video showing Renee Good’s final moments.

RENEE GOOD: That's fine, dude. I'm not mad at you, all right.

JOHNSON (voice over): The footage reportedly filmed by the ICE agent, Jonathan Ross, Wednesday. You see his face covered by a mask in the car’s reflection as he circles her maroon SUV. Good's partner, Becca, also recording. Ross checking the car’s license plate.

BECCA GOOD: That’s OK. We don't change our plates every morning.

JOHNSON (voice over): Another agent yelling at Good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) car. Get out of the car.

JOHNSON (voice over): Agent Ross, in front of the vehicle as it moves forward. Good appearing to turn the wheel away from the officer. Within a split second, Ross firing three shots, including one through the windshield, killing Good, a 37-year-old mother of three who had moved to Minnesota. Her car crashing into a parked vehicle. Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara reacting to that video.

BRIAN O’HARA, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF: Police policies, police trainings try and avoid placing law enforcement officers during a traffic stop in a situation where their lives may unnecessarily be placed at risk.

JOHNSON (voice over): The administration immediately leaping to the officer's defense. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem drawing this conclusion during remarks in Texas some two and a half hours after Good was killed.

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It was an act of domestic terrorism. What happened was our ICE officers were out on an enforcement action. They got stuck in the snow. They were attempting to push out their vehicle and a woman attacked them and those surrounding them and attempted to run them over and ram them with her vehicle. An officer of ours acted quickly and defensively shot to protect himself and the people around him.

JOHNSON (voice over): The next day, Vice President J.D. Vance using a combative new conference to defend the ICE officer and place additional blame on Good.

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She was trying to ram this guy with his -- with her car. He shot back. He defended himself.

I can believe that her death is a tragedy, while also recognizing that it's a tragedy of her own making.

JOHNSON (voice over): But in Minneapolis, growing outrage. Many disputing the administration's claim.

Mayor Jacob Frey hammering ICE’s presence in the aftermath of the incident.

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS: Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of Minneapolis.

JOHNSON (voice over): We showed him that new footage.

FREY: He walked away with a hop and a step from the incident. There's another person that's dead. He held on to his cellphone. I think that speaks for itself.

JOHNSON: Does that video, that angle, change your perspective at all about what may have happened?

FREY: I think an investigation could change or affirm my perspective. But we’ve got all two eyes. And I can see a person that is trying to leave. I can see an ICE agent that was not run over by a car. That didn't happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: Our thanks to Whit Johnson.

I'm joined now by Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota.

Thanks so much for joining us on this very difficult week, Senator.

SEN. TINA SMITH, (D) MINNESOTA: Well, thank you so much, Martha. I'm glad to have a chance to talk with you.

RADDATZ: I know we just heard Mayor Frey say that what he sees in those videos is Renee Good trying to leave and that the ICE officer was not run over by a car. He said flatly, that did not happen. Do you agree?

SMITH: I do agree. I mean I think what we are seeing here is the federal government, Kristi Noem, Vice President Vance, Donald Trump, attempt to cover up what happened here in the Twin Cities. And I don’t think that people here and around the country are believing it.

I mean, I can tell you what is going on right now in my community, in the, you know, days after Renee Good was shot and killed. There is just chaos with ICE agents grabbing American citizens, detaining them, arresting them, and as we’ve seen, shooting and killing them.

And this deportation campaign of the Trump administration is hurting our public safety here in the Twin Cities. And it is dangerous. And it must stop.

RADDATZ: You are saying the administration is trying to cover up this shooting. That’s a pretty serious charge. What do you mean exactly?

SMITH: What I mean by that is that you can see everything that they are doing is trying to shape the narrative, to say what happened, without any investigation. And, you know, hours after Renee Good was shot and killed by federal agents, Kristi Noem was already telling us exactly what had happened. They were calling her a domestic terrorist before they even knew what her name was.

And I -- what I see, especially because they are blocking state investigators from participating in any way in this investigation, that they have a strategy of putting out what they -- what their version of events are. And that is very dangerous. And I don’t think people are going to buy it, particularly after you see these videos.

I mean it’s kind of incredible, isn’t it, that this last video that they’ve released to sort of exonerate this officer actually does exactly the opposite. Here's this woman saying basically, you know, hey dude, I'm not mad at you. And seconds later, he has shot her three times in the face as she is just trying to get around him.

RADDATZ: I want to talk about that latest video because there were clearly words between the officers and Renee Good and her wife, Rebecca. Do you know, or have any idea what happened before that, what precipitated those comments, and does this change your mind at all? It sounds like it doesn’t.

SMITH: I -- no, it doesn’t because, you know, I approach this from my perspective, having worked for many years with law enforcement, both at the city of Minneapolis and also at the state level. And I understand how law enforcement -- professional law enforcement is trained. They are trained to de-escalate situations, not make them worse, not make conflict worse. They are certainly trained to step out of the way of a moving vehicle, not place themselves in the middle of a moving vehicle. And no professional law enforcement would, like, exchange words or banter with somebody who is engaged in their legal right to protest and then lose control, which is, you know, which looks to me like what happened here.

RADDATZ: Congressman Ilhan Omar, who represents Minneapolis, described Good as a

legal observer of ICE.

What does that entail? What do you know about that? Obviously, the administration has a -- has a different narrative about that.

SMITH:  Well, I know what’s happening in this community is that folks that are not the targets of this ICE operation are going to trainings, volunteer trainings. And the purpose is to be -- you learn what they are allowed to do, what they are legally allowed to do in order to observe what’s happening on the street and to be able to catch video, which is, of course, all completely legal, and then, you know, be able to sort of help Americans document what is happening with this incredible deportation campaign.

And I -- that’s my understanding about what was going on here -- this -- on Wednesday.

RADDATZ:  You’ve also had some fairly large protests there in Minnesota, and there are some across the country as well. Some of them turned violent in Minneapolis, attacking a hotel or throwing things at a hotel where ICE agents were believed to be staying.

What would you say to those protesters? And also, what would you say to those who don’t want the ICE agents there about taking care, or how they approach officers?

SMITH:  Yeah. Well, I want to observe first that the overwhelming amount of demonstration that -- demonstrations that have happened have been peaceful. Yesterday, there was a demonstration of thousands of people in Powderhorn Park, in the center of South Minneapolis, that was peaceful.

Of course, it is essential that we have peaceful protests. And what I have been saying to people, in all the opportunities I have when I talk to people on the street is that -- that the Trump administration wants to foment chaos and division and fear and even violence. And it is essential that we do not fall into that trap, that our strength is in our unity, our strength is in our peaceful demonstrations.

And, you know, we will not give in. We will not sort of cave in to the fear and the chaos that they are trying to create, they are creating. But we will meet that with unity and with peace.

RADDATZ:  And, Senator, you say, and we’ve seen this, the administration rushing to judgment here on exactly what happened, but plenty of Democrats made very quick judgments as well. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Representative Eric Swalwell, Seth Moulton, called the officer -- what happened there a murder.

So, others are rushing to judgment, too. Is that what you want to hear?

SMITH:  What I think is essential to keep in mind here is that if we’re going to trust the federal government, how can we trust the federal government to do an objective, unbiased investigation, without prejudice, when at the beginning of that investigation they have already announced exactly what they saw -- what they think happened? And then they bar, from participating in the investigation, the unbiased state investigators who frequently collaborate with federal investigators on -- when there are things that need to be looked into.

So, I mean, I think they have just completely destroyed any credibility as they have so quickly rushed to judgment.

RADDATZ:  So, just to button this up, you do not think that the officer was rammed? You do not think that Renee Good did anything wrong?

SMITH:  I have seen nothing in any of the eyewitness videos, nor in any of the eyewitness reports from this tragic day that would suggest that she was in any way a threat to these officers.

But, again, this is why we need to have a free -- a fair and unbiased investigation so we can gather all of the evidence and all of the information, and we can know exactly what’s happening. And what I think is going on here is the administration does not want that to happen. And that looks to me like a cover up.

RADDATZ:  And just, legally, do you think the ICE officer -- certainly said he feared bodily harm. Is that possible in your eyes?

SMITH:  I mean, it’s hard -- it’s hard for me, looking at the evidence that I have seen, to imaging how he could feel bodily harm. I mean the guy is holding a camera. He’s holding his phone with one hand taking video, while with the other hand, he is shooting this woman in the face three times.

And he stumbles back and then he swears at her as she careens off to her death. That does not look to me like an individual who is -- who was in fear of -- of, you know, dangerous -- danger from his part.

RADDATZ:  OK, thank you so much for joining us this morning, Senator. We appreciate it very greatly.

SMITH:  Thank you so much, Martha.

RADDATZ:  And to help us understand how this deadly altercation played out, I'm joined now by two experts on the use of force and how law enforcement officers are trained -- former Ferguson, Missouri, Police Chief Jason Armstrong, and John Sandweg, former acting director of ICE during the Obama administration.

Thanks for joining me this morning, gentlemen.

And, Chief, I want to start with you.

Based on what you have seen in those various videos, does there appear to be a legal justification for the shooting?

JASON ARMSTRONG, FORMER FERGUSON, MO POLICE CHIEF: I believe that there will be a strong argument for legal justification of the shooting.

The Graham v. Connor Supreme Court case is what governs use of force in this country. There is a three-prong test that we have to weigh in analyzing any incident where force is used. What is the severity of the crime, which I’m still waiting to hear the answer to that question. That really hasn't been put out why they were going up to the car to get her out to begin with. But the other one, is there an immediate threat? And I know we’ve all watched multiple videos and multiple angles. One of the things that is factored into the assessment of that is, you know, 20/20 hindsight is not applied during the use of force review and how --

RADDATZ: We just heard -- we just heard Senator Smith say, look, he had a cell phone in one hand, a gun in the other. He doesn't seem like a guy that was under threat.

ARMSTRONG: When initially walking around the vehicle, I would agree with that. But once the vehicle starts coming forward, that changes the dynamic of the situation.

The other -- the other component that is going to be analyzed in this is, in addition to the immediate threat there in there and the officer analyzing that is, what is the totality of the circumstances of everything that's going on? And that's really what the argument is in this situation because the officer had -- the agent had just made a loop around the vehicle where he didn't appear to be concerned about what that vehicle was going to do. But once the other agents approached the vehicle, and then the vehicle started moving, we saw everything change very quickly.

RADDATZ: And, Mr. Sandweg, we’ve seen this latest video. Obviously, they were exchanging words, the officers and Renee Good. Take us through that video, and if you learned anything more from that in addition to those other multiple angles.

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: Well, Martha, when I see the video, what I’m concerned -- first of all, I think we need to wait for this investigation to complete. But setting aside whether or not the officer was in imminent fear at that very moment prior to the shooting, what I’m looking at generally in this is wondering, how did we get ICE officers in the position where we are today? We have seen a shift in tactics at ICE that has increased the number of assaults on the agents themselves, exposed them to greater danger, but also increased the number of these incidents that we are seeing.

ICE traditionally -- these types of encounters that you’re seeing here, and especially the role of these protesters and these observers, this is a new environment for ICE and it's not one that’s part of their core mission. And so, when I look at this and what I hope this investigation does is not only look at whether or not that use of force was justified, but let’s take a broader step back and say, hey, what are we doing here that has caused both the uptick in the assaults on the ICE agents themselves, but also these incidents of shootings, which has been, you know, documented. We’re up to 16, I think, in 2025. A real increase in what we’ve historically seen with ICE.

RADDATZ: And, Chief, I want to ask you -- and based on what John said there, too, you were police of -- a police chief in Ferguson, Missouri, about five years after what happened there. But you’ve seen a lot of violence. You’ve been in situations yourself where you have to make that split-second decision. What you’ve seen, is that the way you would have handled it?

ARMSTRONG: Absolutely not. One of the things that we’ve really tried to accomplish in law enforcement, especially municipal law enforcement, is putting in policies, putting in tactics, giving our officers training that emphasizes the sanctity of life. And not just me protecting myself and the sanctity of my life, but the sanctity of life of everybody that’s involved in whatever interaction we may be dealing with.

And in this instance, you know, me putting myself in that situation, having been in similar situations, my first thought is going to be to get out of the way of the vehicle. Even before the vehicle starts moving, you know, the -- the video that we see from the agent -- and you can see that Ms. Good starts turning the steering wheel, that's going to signal to me that this vehicle is about to move. I don't know what direction it's going to move in, because I can't see the wheels, but I'm going to looking to get out of the way of the vehicle. And that’s going to be the first thought that’s in my mind is removing myself from the line of danger so this situation doesn't end as tragically as this one did. That's going to be what’s going to be top of mind for me.

RADDATZ: And, John, just talk a little bit about the training of ICE agents and putting them in a situation like that where they know they’re probably going to face some protests because the state and local officials didn't want them there. So, talk about the training of an ICE agent in a situation like this. This isn't normally what they do.

SANDWEG: Yes, Martha, every case is different, and obviously, this case has its own unique situations. This particular officer was actually very well-trained, was a seasoned officer, was a member of ICE's RT Team. Traditionally, this particular officer, his unit, let's say, the majority of their arrests are actually taking people into custody that other agencies have arrested.

Typically, they would be picking up people from the U.S. Border Patrol or in state and local jails. When they would do these at-large arrest, they would be more surgical, more tactical hitting in homes pursuant to pre-plans. Instead, what we've done is we've shifted ICE to where they're doing a lot more at-large street operations.

We've pulled these Border Patrol agents up off the streets outside their normal operating environment to where they're -- instead of the southwest desert, they're now in these urban cities. And then we've pre-announced that we're coming, thus giving these protesters an opportunity to get organized and forcing these agents to have to deal with this.

And Martha, all of this is a radical shift, and when you take these officers out of their core experiences and really different than their core training, unfortunately, what happened in Minneapolis and what's happening kind of writ large in these use of force incidents is really what you have to expect.

RADDATZ: OK. Thank you so much for joining us this morning, both of you. We appreciate it.

Coming up, President Trump is vowing to support protesters in Iran against a violent government crackdown. And what's Trump's next move in Venezuela? We'll discuss both with GOP Senator Rand Paul.

We're back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: Some alarming images coming out of Iran this morning with massive violent demonstrations rocking the country in protest of Iran's failing economy and devastating inflation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ (voice-over): They are the biggest anti-government protests in Iran in years. Cars set on fire, government buildings set aflame. Videos posted on social media showing the violent escalation. A man using a flamethrower against an officer.

More than 100 people killed and 2600 arrested during the nationwide protests according to a U.S.-based human rights group.

Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Khamenei saying protesters are destroying the country to, quote, "please the U.S. president." President Donald Trump siding with the protesters.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I tell the Iranian leaders, you better not start shooting because we'll start shooting, too.

RADDATZ: "The Wall Street Journal" and "New York Times" reporting that Trump administration officials have had preliminary discussions about how to carry out an attack on Iran, including possible target sites. And Trump posting on social media Saturday, "Iran is looking at freedom, perhaps like never before. The USA stands ready to help."

A top Iranian official warning that the U.S. Military and Israel would be legitimate targets if the U.S. strikes Iran.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ:  And I'm joined now by Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee.

Good morning to you, Senator.

Really pretty alarming images coming out of Iran this morning. And the president saying he is backing those protesters and that he will hit them hard where it hurts.

Does this concern you?

REP. RAND PAUL (R-KY):  Well, you know, we've had various times through the year protests in Iran. We're always hopeful that, you know, a freedom movement will develop and overwhelm the authoritarian government there.

The only problem I have with saying, "Oh, we're going to bomb Iran", is that sometimes it has the opposite effect. So, when you bomb a country, then people tend to rally around their own flag. They tend to see this is the -- you know, a foreign country coming in and bombing us. And so, I don't think it always has that effect.

I wish -- you know, the same as the president, I want success. I hope that the freedom movement survives. I hope that the Iranian government, you know, doesn't kill the protesters. But it sounds like they already have.

But I don't know that bombing Iran will have the effect that is intended.

RADDATZ:  And what about those threats of bombing right now and what you heard from the ayatollah there?

I don't think I have ever heard a president say they may take military action to protect protesters. Certainly, with Soleimani when the Trump administration hit him, there were massive protests against America. But they are shouting “death to the ayatollah”.

Do we owe it to those protesters? Do you believe to help them?

PAUL:  Well, I think we wish them the best. We wish freedom and liberation the best across the world, but I don't think it's the job of the American government to be involved with every freedom movement around the world.

And I do believe that bombing them may have the opposite. It's like how do you drop a bomb in the middle of a crowd or a protest and protect the people there? If you bomb the government, do you then rally people to their flag who are upset with the ayatollah, but then say, "Well, gosh, we can't have a foreign government invading or bombing our country"?

It tends to have people rally to the cause. So, I think the protests are directed at the ayatollah, justifiably so. And the best way is to encourage them and say that, of course, we would recognize a government that is a freedom-loving government that allows free elections, but bombing is not the answer.

Plus, there is this sticking point of the Constitution that we won't let presidents bomb countries just when they feel like it. They're supposed to ask the people, through the Congress, for permission.

RADDATZ:  And to that point, let's turn to Venezuela. The Senate narrowly advanced the War Powers legislation that you co-sponsored requiring President Trump to seek congressional approval if he goes back and bombs in Venezuela or elsewhere. Even if it passes, it seems very unlikely that Trump would sign it.

Is there anything else that you would like to see Congress do?

PAUL:  You know, this is a big debate, probably one of the most important debates we have in Congress. This isn't new. And I've told the president, frankly, it isn't about President Trump per se or solely. It's about really a struggle between the legislature and the president and who has the power.

Our Founding Fathers were unanimous from Hamilton to Jefferson that they placed that power to initiate or declare war in Congress because they wanted less war. They were tired of the perpetual wars of Europe between the royal families. They were tired of having too much power concentrated in the monarch. So, they divided that power up. And that's what the Founding Fathers wanted.

And then some people say, “Well, Congress is so feckless. They would never know how to get us started in war.” But when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor and we were attacked at 9/11, the vote by Congress was nearly unanimous. It's been when the dictate towards war or the reasons for war were less clear, like Iraq, that the votes was closer. And it turns out that, you know, many of us think the Iraq War was a mistake.

RADDATZ:  And, Senator --

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL:  So is President Trump. So --

RADDATZ:  Senator, I want your reaction to what happened with Venezuela this week, meeting with the oil executives and what you have heard President Trump talk about in terms of Venezuela. There's -- right now, Americans are being told not to travel there. It's very dangerous, that gangs are going to kidnap them.

So, your reaction to that?

PAUL:  You know, my hope is for a free and a transformation to freedom and free elections in Venezuela.

As far as oil companies coming back in, one thing they have to consider is the level of chaos that's still there, the amount of money that it would take, and also the memory that socialism didn't begin with Maduro or Chavez.

Socialism began really with Perez in the early 1970s. They nationalized the natural gas in ‘71. They naturalized the oil companies in ‘76.

So, the ideas of socialism and nationalization are long held in Venezuela and there are definitely risks.

I hope our oil companies will go in, but it's not the job of the U.S. government to secure contracts or guarantee contracts. That would be individual private companies determining that it's safe enough and that it's a good risk for their capital.

RADDATZ:  And just quickly, if I can get you on Greenland. You said this week, you'll do everything to stop any kind of military takeover of Greenland. The White House said that was not off the table.

But do you actually think he would use military force or is there -- are we overreacting to that?

PAUL:  I would hope not. But let's say you wanted to buy Greenland -- and I'm not disputing that that might be something we might want, to buy Greenland. You don't get there by angering and denigrating the people who live there and saying, "We're going to march the Marines in and take if you don't sell it to us." It doesn't make them very willing to sell to us.

So really, if your goal is somehow we're going to rattle the saber and then they're going to sell it to us, I think it's having the opposite effect. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone in Greenland for it, but you'd also be hard-pressed to find somebody in Washington who's for a military invasion on either side of the aisle.

So, I think there'll be enough pressure to stop it. But the problem is, they keep rattling the saber. They keep saying we're going to do this. We keep this in our armamentarium that we will, you know, reserve the right to invade Greenland.

And that gets back to the War Powers Act. That's why this debate is so important, because it's not just about Venezuela. It's about Venezuela. It's about Greenland. It's about Colombia. It's about Cuba. It's about whether or not the people get a say in whether we go to war.

RADDATZ:  OK. Thank you so much for joining us this morning, Senator. Appreciate it.

Coming up, we'll break down the global hotspots facing the Trump administration with former NATO Ambassador Doug Lute and "The New York Times" David Sanger fresh off his Oval Office interview with the president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, UNITED STATES HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISOR:  What is their basis of having Greenland as a colony of Denmark? The United States is the power of NATO. For the United States to secure the Arctic region, to protect and defend NATO and NATO interests, obviously, Greenland should be part of the United States.

There's no need to even think or talk about this in the context that you're asking, of a military operation. Nobody's going to fight the United States militarily over the future of Greenland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ:  That was the Trump administration's Stephen Miller making the case for the U.S. takeover of Greenland.  I'm joined now by former U.S. Ambassador to NATO, retired Lieutenant General Doug Lute and New York Times White House and National Security

Correspondent David Sanger.

And, David, you were in the Oval Office with a couple of other "New York Times" reporters this week for a pretty remarkable interview with the president. Set the scene.

DAVID SANGER, NEW YORK TIMES WHITE HOUSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It was remarkable. “The Times” relationship with the president, as you know, has been a little bit fraught at times. He’s sued "The Times" on several occasions. But he is also very willing to sit down and talk about his foreign policy issues at length. And we went in for a general interview that started at 5:00 p.m. and ended a little after 9:00.

RADDATZ: Well, and part of that interview -- and I know you recorded the audio -- he was asked whether -- this is a fascinating answer, whether there were limits to his global powers.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE ROGERS, “NEW YORK TIMES” REPORTER: Do you see any checks on our power on the world stage? Is there anything that could stop you if you wanted to?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, there’s one thing, my own morality, my own mind. It’s the only thing that can stop. And that’s very good.

“NEW YORK TIMES” REPORTER: Not international law?

TRUMP: I don’t need international law. I'm not looking to hurt people. I'm not looking to kill people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: David.

SANGER: It was a great question by Katie Rogers you heard there.

I think what the president was saying is that he is feeling right now sort of at the top of his game after the bombing of the Iranian nuclear sites, the seizure of Maduro and that basically power rules. And so, a little bit of what you heard from Stephen Miller early on, which is international law is to be followed when it is convenient to us. But in the world we live in today, in Trump's mind, it's the big superpowers with the capability to do what they can. And everyone else is going to have to just accommodate.

RADDATZ: And Ambassador Lute, you -- David was in the Oval Office for a couple of hours. You were in and out of Oval Offices much of your career with two presidents, George Bush and Barack Obama. When you hear a statement like that, what's your reaction?

LT. GEN. DOUG LUTE (RET.), FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think all of those presidents that you mentioned, Martha, have had as their number one priority the security of American interests and security of the American people. I’d argue that it's international law that actually provides that security. It provides a base of stability and predictability, not only for us, but for the rest of the world as well. So, I don't think there’s -- there shouldn't be a contrast between international law and American security. They actually should be mutually reinforce it (ph).

RADDATZ: And, David, I want to move on to something else. He said -- he talked about Venezuela as well but was also asked about what kind of message, what happened in Venezuela sends to Vladimir Putin about Ukraine and China’s president, Xi, about Taiwan.

Let’s listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANGER: Xi would tell you Taiwan’s a threat to China, that it’s a separatist operation.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He considers it to be a part of China. And that’s up to him what he’s going to be doing. But, you know, I've expressed to him that I would be very unhappy if he did that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANGER: So, what I was trying to get at here was, had the president thought about the second order effects of the operation in Venezuela, the seizure of Maduro, this kind of remote control version of occupation that we're doing and how Xi and Putin might take that. And I think what his answer revealed, Martha, was that he is perfectly willing to let Xi determine Taiwan’s future. He has said, we would prefer you don't do it. But that answer was not rife with, Xi needs to know the United States would come to Taiwan’s defense.

RADDATZ: They’ve got to be getting the message, right, Doug?

LUTE: Well, look, I think neither President Xi nor President Putin need an excuse or an example, a pretext for actions that they see in their interests. And this has been perfectly clear for a long time. I mean, Putin invaded Georgia in 2008. Ukraine in 2014. Ukraine again in 2022. Xi threatens routinely the sovereignty of Taiwan and it has aggressive actions in the South China Sea. So, neither one of them needs an example.

RADDATZ: And, finally, David, Greenland. We heard what Stephen Miller said there. We heard what Rand Paul said about that as well. I'm not going to play it, but I want to say what Trump said. “I think that ownership gives you a thing that you can't do, whether you’re talking about a lease or a treaty. Ownership gives you things and elements that you can't get from just signing a document.”

So, what do you think he’s going to do then?

SANGER: So, at one point, he said, look, it's just psychological with me. I just want to own it. And I just kept thinking to myself, here is a man who rose as a real estate developer in New York. He knows the difference between owning and leasing.

I've been to Greenland just a few months ago. There's nothing that we need to accomplish we couldn't do by reopening the bases that the U.S. has had there for years.

RADDATZ:  That's exactly what I was going to ask Ambassador Lute.

I mean, the national security concerns -- there are national security concerns. But is there anything we can't do?

LUTE:  That's right. I mean, we have national security concerns in and around Greenland. I mean, the Arctic Sea (sic) is becoming increasingly trafficable because of melt -- ice melting and so forth, the security of North Atlantic. The potential for tapping critical minerals in Greenland. All of these are important.

But this is an open door, Martha. And I wish the president would consider something walking through it rather than blowing it down.

RADDATZ:  And, David, we have like 10 seconds. Just wrap up your thoughts of what that was like in the Oval Office.

SANGER:  You know, a lot of people thought that Donald Trump was an isolationist. He’s anything but. He’s an interventionist, which -- and we have discovered that he’s got some imperial tendencies to him. And they’ve all been on display, and he’s around for the next three years. And I think you’ll probably see more.

RADDATZ:  Probably will.

Thanks for joining us this morning.

Up next, the White House rewrites the history of January 6. That, plus the roundtable when we come back.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT:  I think it's very offensive that the White House used taxpayer dollars and taxpayer website to blame Capitol Hill police for what happened on January 6. I mean, they -- I understand the revisionist history that the president has tried to promote. I think the overwhelming majority of the American people know what they saw that day, and I know what I saw that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ:  Former Vice President Mike Pence criticizing the new White House website unveiled on Tuesday, the five-year anniversary of the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol. The website rewrites the history of the day, describing the pro-Trump marchers as orderly and spirited while accusing Capitol Police of deliberately escalating tensions with their response. The website describes Pence presiding over the 2020 election certificate as a betrayal of the president.

The roundtable is up next. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ:  And the Roundtable is all here. Former DNC Chair, Donna Brazile; New Yorker Staff Writer, Susan Glasser; SCOTUS Blog Editor, Sarah Isgur, and former Trump White House Chief of Staff, Reince Priebus.

And Reince, I want to ask you just quickly about the change in that website on January 6th.

REINCE PRIEBUS, FORMER RNC CHAIR, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF & ABC NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST:  Well, look, I mean, the president campaigned for four years. I think he started a lot of his rallies with a January 6th Pledge of Allegiance.

And I honestly believe that this is the president having fun with Democrats and people in the media that go bananas every time he does these sorts of things. And I think he's so thoroughly entertained by it, to be honest. I don't think he is trying to rewrite anything. I think he actually enjoys it.

RADDATZ:  Can't imagine those officers are entertained by it. But let's turn to Minnesota.

Trump has forcefully defended the ICE officer who shot Renee Good. He said, and J.D. Vance said, it's a tragedy of her own making. Regardless of who you think may have been at fault there or any judgment, is that the right thing for the administration to be doing at this point?

PRIEBUS:  Well, I mean, part of the problem here is that the mayor came out, I think, like a clown and immediately, before anyone else spoke, accused the officer of murder, started throwing the F-bomb around about ICE.

Total, I think, an affront to law enforcement and the rights of the federal government to enforce. And the law says they must enforce. So, first of all, the mayor should shut his mouth and say, we're going to wait for an investigation for all the facts to come out.

And the fact of the reality is I've tried cases. I've been in court. I know that one of the most important things in trying a case is a jury instruction. You can dismiss cases with them, summary judgment.

The most important question for any jury in a case like this, and I have it here, is does a reasonable officer believe the suspect imposed an imminent threat of serious bodily harm? And the answer to that question is yes. And because of that, there is no case here.

RADDATZ:  Sarah, you want to jump in on this one? Should the president, should the senior officials, whatever you're saying about Mayor Frey, it's the president of the United States,

it's J.D. Vance. It's Kristi Noem.

SARAH ISGUR, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It's everyone frankly. It's everyone on Twitter who saw, you know, the same video and takes wildly different things away from it. I wish everyone would wait for an actual investigation instead of --

RADDATZ: But it's different when senior officials weigh in.

ISGUR: It is. They should wait. The mayor should wait. The truth also, though, is that this is a very unusual situation because it's a federal officer. You go back to Ruby Ridge, this happened where Idaho charged the officer in that case. Back to James Meredith when U.S. Marshals were in Mississippi trying to enroll James Meredith. There was a riot that used tear gas and that Mississippi charged the marshal. That was removed to federal court because this is a federal officer.

So Minnesota will not really be able to charge the officer in this case, regardless of the investigation. It will go to federal court. It will almost certainly be dismissed regardless.

RADDATZ: And Donna, your reaction to all this, and all of the political rhetoric. And I did point out to Tina Smith that you have many Democrats making murder charge.

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR: Well, first of all, I want to say on January 6th, because I can't let that go by, it's a shame. It's a shame that the president is trying to rewrite history. History that we all witnessed. And to somehow think that this is going to provoke some laughter or some entertainment, no. 140 Metropolitan and Capitol Hill police officers were injured. People died that day. There's no reason why we should make fun or mock that occasion.

Minnesota, tragedy. Tragedy. My heart still breaks. It's getting harder and harder to listen to all of the rhetoric when a mom of three children is dead. She's deceased. We are vilifying her. We are calling her a terrorist when she was murdered in her own neighborhood. We need a full, complete investigation.

The American people should know that this should never happen again. No one should feel unsafe in their neighborhood. Sitting in their car. Trying to get out of harm's way. And to shoot this woman point-blank in the face, we all should just -- not just mourn her loss, her passing, but also find ways that we can heal this community.

People in Minnesota and other places where ICE has landed, they are feeling unsafe right now, unsecure. And no one should get away with this. We need an investigation.

RADDATZ: And Susan, the investigation is happening. The state and local officials are not part of that. He was, as Sarah points out, a federal officer. We've also looked at the protests. I mean, there have been large protests. They have not been massive protests across the country like George Floyd. Where do you see this going?

SUSAN GLASSER, NEW YORKER STAFF WRITER: Yes, I see the country very divided right now, Martha. And partially as a political tactic. You know, I think it's a terribly painful moment when we can't say it's a tragedy and when there seems to be political opportunism in calling a woman a domestic terrorist before we know anything about the events, you know, especially in the context of the same week as the anniversary of January 6th where we've now not only pardoned all the violent people who physically attacked our Capitol, and I -- just I think it's about the temperature in this country being purposefully inflamed.

There's a lot across the political spectrum where people now have an interest in increasing this kind of division. But, you know, everyday Americans can look at this and say, this is a horrifying thing that occurred here. And the fact that we have political leaders in the country who aren't saying that to us right now in a moment when we need to hear it is really where the politics are in 2026.

PRIEBUS: What about the concept of people using cars to ram officers, people in convoys blocking federal agents to do their job? Isn't that something that we think is wrong? I mean, we have become a country that isn't just politically divided, but now we've got people using vehicles, impeding police, not following orders.

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: Is that not wrong?

GLASSER: Was it wrong?

PRIEBUS: Is that not wrong?

GLASSER: Was it wrong to storm our own Capitol?

PRIEBUS: It's unbelievable. They shouldn't call these people names.

GLASSER: Is it entertainment?

PRIEBUS: What about using physical violence?

RADDATZ: Sarah, I want to take that to you just in terms of training. And you heard actually Chief Jason Armstrong say, he thought the ICE officer actually had a legal case there. But in terms of all these encounters, and they have increased, what about the training?

ISGUR: Yes, I've been involved in several police-involved shooting investigations at the Department of Justice. And one of the first things that you look to in any investigation is what was the officer trained to do? Because it informs what a reasonable officer would do in a situation. Fifteen percent or so of in the line deaths are caused by cars, or caused by vehicles. Every officer is trained, as that man said, to avoid the danger of a vehicle. There's no question he shouldn't have been in front of that vehicle at that time.

But the Supreme Court has also said, we do look to the totality of circumstances, including the fact that in that moment, he was in front of the vehicle as that vehicle is moving. So legally, I think it is a relatively clear case once it gets to federal court. But politically, it really highlights, I think, the divide that this country feels that everyone rushed to their political priors when they saw that video.

RADDATZ:  And Susan, I want to ask you quickly, just on foreign news, and we've had a lot of it, obviously, this week. Venezuela, Greenland, you had a very interesting article this week, the piece said, "Why Donald Trump Wants Greenland and Everything Else."

GLASSER:  You know, Martha, it's interesting. When we interviewed President Trump a few years ago about Greenland, which was a preoccupation in his first term as well. He gave this very interesting comment. He essentially said, well, I'm a real estate developer. And I looked on the map, and it is massive. And we just ought to have it.

You combine that with that remarkable comment that you played earlier about ownership being different. And I think, you know, what we're seeing is that we were wrong in Trump's first term, I think, when we thought that he was a sort of a neo-isolationist, that he was about withdrawing from the world.

In the last year, he has had military action against multiple different countries. He's threatened additional military action against multiple countries, even since taking the leader of Venezuela out. And I think what you're seeing, really, is that Trump has a view of an impunity in acting with the world.

It's not that he doesn't want to act militarily around the world, but that he says that it's a sort of a unilateralism driven by his own desires and interests.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE:  The 57,000 inhabitants of Greenland deserve to have a say in this. And I hope the Secretary, Marco Rubio, meet with those officials, because they deserve to have a say in their own independence and whoever decides to buy them. Truman tried to buy them, people forget that history, and they said no. So they deserve a say.

RADDATZ:  A lot to watch there. A lot we'll be watching in the coming weeks in Iran as well, and of course, the domestic agenda. Thanks for joining us. We'll be right back.

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RADDATZ:  That's all for today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight," and have a great day.

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