'This Week' Transcript 1-18-26: Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, Rep. Michael McCaul, Sen. Chris Van Hollen & NJ Gov.-elect Mikie Sherrill

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, January 18, 2026 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JONATHAN KARL, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: President Trump appears to have dialed back, at least for now, his threats to send the military into Minneapolis. But the Justice Department is turning up the heat on the governor and the mayor.

"THIS WEEK" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: After a week of escalating tensions, President Trump says he still may invoke the Insurrection Act, but not now.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I needed it, I’d use it. I don't think there's any reason right now to use it.

KARL: Officials in Minnesota call for calm after another shooting.

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): This is not the America we want. This is not the Minnesota we deserve.

KARL: Federal officials are now targeting Governor Tim Walz and Mayor Jacob Frey for allegedly obstructing law enforcement. This morning, reaction from Mayor Frey and the former Republican chair of the House Homeland Security Committee.

Brutal crackdown. President Trump promised protesters, help is on the way. The Iranian regime cracks down.

TRUMP: Well, we're going to watch and see what the process is. We were just told no executions. I hope that's true.

KARL: President Trump turns the screws on NATO’s allies in a bid to acquire Greenland.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we need Greenland for national security. So, we’re going to see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we made it very, very clear that this is not in the interest of the kingdom.

KARL: Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen joins us live.

And New Jersey's new governor.

GOV.-ELECT MIKIE SHERRILL, (D) NEW JERSEY: And I am incredibly honored to be your next governor.

KARL: Just two days before she takes office, we speak with Governor-elect Mikie Sherrill about her administration’s agenda and her landslide victory in November.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it’s “THIS WEEK.” Here now, Jonathan Karl.

KARL: Good morning. Welcome to "THIS WEEK."

This morning, we had a hard time figuring out where to start the show. The frenzy of activity emanating from the White House so far in the first weeks of 2026 has been dizzying. Just yesterday, President Trump announced a new round of tariffs on eight of America's European allies, including the U.K., France and Germany, for sending small contingents of troops to Greenland in the wake of Trump's threat to take the territory from Denmark. He has said repeatedly the U.S. needs to acquire Greenland and has not ruled out using military force to make that happen.

Aside from threatening more over Greenland, consider some of the other things President Trump has done during the opening days of the new year. He ordered a dead of night special operations force to capture the president of Venezuela and declared the U.S. is now in control of the country. He said the U.S. could also take action on Cuba, Colombia, and Mexico. He told "The New York Times" that the only thing that can constrain him internationally is, quote, “My own morality.” Saying, “my own mind. It’s the only thing that can stop me.”

He threatened military action against Iran, promising Iranian protesters, help on the way. He’s threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act to send active duty U.S. military to Minnesota, promising citizens, quote, “the day of reckoning and retribution is coming.” His Justice Department has subpoenaed Fed Chair Jerome Powell, launched criminal investigations into Democrats in Congress who urged troops not to go along with unlawful orders, searched a reporter’s home and prompted the resignation of six federal prosecutors in Minnesota for investigating Renee Good’s wife but not the man who shot her. And now, sources tell us, DOJ has opened criminal investigations into the Democratic governor of Minnesota and the Democratic mayor of Minneapolis.

And that’s where we begin, with Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey.

Mayor Frey, thank you for joining us.

Let me just start with that Justice Department investigation. Have you received a subpoena yet?

MAYOR JACOB FREY, (D) MINNESOTA: We have not received a subpoena. And, at the same time, if the rumors are true, this is deeply concerning because this is way more important than just me. This is a very serious matter. And this whole investigation, it would ultimately be the product of one of the most basic foundational responsibilities that I have as mayor, which is to speak on behalf of my constituents.

You know, there are other countries where you get put away for the things that you say. There are other countries where you get investigated for saying something that runs counter to what the federal government states. But in this country, it’s not that way. Here we have freedom of speech. And we do not negotiate those rights away.

KARL: So, if and when that subpoena comes, and we are told that investigation has been launched, will you comply with the Justice Department's demands?

FREY: Look, we have done nothing wrong. So, of course, we will comply in it. But at the same time, we need to be understanding how wild this is. And whether it’s Senator Slotkin or Governor Walz or myself, this is not the way that we conduct ourselves in America.

We are doing everything possible right now to keep people safe in our city. We have spoken out to make sure that our residents are protected and people’s constitutional rights are upheld. Speaking out in that way is not illegality. In fact, that is enshrined in the charter of our city, which is our Constitution.

KARL: So, Governor Walz has activated the National Guard, put them on standby, just in case things got out of control. How tense are things in Minneapolis right now?

FREY: The intensity is caused by the unwanted, uninvited people that are here in the form of ICE. To give you an idea, we have about 600 police officers in total in Minneapolis. And there’s somewhere in the range of 3,000 ICE agents and Border Control. They’re indiscriminately taking people off the street. They’re asking for IDs and passports if you happen to look like you’re Latino or you’re Somali.

And while certainly you see on the news the incidents that are of heightened tension, we have a whole lot of -- the rest of the city where there’s calm. And the calm exists where you don’t have ICE agents. So, if you are looking to restore order and prevent chaos, there’s a very straightforward antidote, and that is for ICE to leave. That is for our local police officers who, by the way, are working tirelessly, and our community members to be in charge of keeping people safe in our city.

We have had not that many shootings this year thus far, but the other -- I'll tell you, two of them, two of maybe the four or five have been ICE. And so that gives you an idea right there of who’s causing the tension. And we’re going to do everything possible here to keep people safe.

KARL: It is remarkable that in your city right now, as you have just laid out, that federal law enforcement officers outnumber local police by five to one. What is your message to protesters on how they should handle that situation? Because you have, I've heard you say several times, don’t take the bait.

FREY: Right.

KARL: What is your message now to protesters?

FREY: The message hasn’t changed. And at the same time, we have had tens of thousands of people in Minneapolis stand up and protest peacefully. We’ve got people sliding down these hills of ice to attend a protest and making sure that people would have food that are scared to go outside because they’re afraid of having their families ripped apart.

You know, I think it’s important to tell the whole country that this is not just about resistance here in Minneapolis, it’s about love. We are showing something far more powerful and consequential here, which is love. We are standing up for one another. You’ve got neighbors helping neighbors. You’ve got people uniting and coming together in this beautiful way. And, obviously, we’ve got these threats out there from the federal government that were literally designed to intimidate Minneapolis residents, to intimidate me.

But here’s the thing, we’re not going to be intimidated. We’ve got this beautiful city full of extraordinary people. I have never been prouder to be from Minneapolis.

KARL: But let me ask you, during those incredibly emotional moments and hours after the shooting of Renee Good, you went on national television, and you said to ICE, get the F out of Minneapolis.

Do you regret that language? I mean, that doesn’t sound like turning the temperature down.

FREY: I don’t regret it at all. In the moments before I went out there to do that press conference, I learned that Kristi Noem had already jumped to a conclusion as to the ICE agent’s conduct, saying that it was purely self-defense. Minutes or hours later you had her saying that Renee Good was a domestic terrorist. If I seemed like I was angry and frustrated, I was.

And part of my responsibility as mayor is to channel what people in our city are feeling. And the people in our city were angry. They were upset. And at the same time, from the very beginning, we were saying the same thing, which is, we’ve got to keep the peace.

We’re not going to counter Donald Trump’s chaos with our own brand of chaos here. Yes, we stand up. Yes, we peacefully protest. And we’re not going to go down this route that gives them the excuse to come in with greater numbers.

They’re looking for an excuse. They’re trying to intimidate Minneapolis residents. But I'll tell you, I've seen tens of thousands of people remain composed, to line up to get groceries to people that are scared to go outside, to make sure that people have a walk to their car on their way back home from work.

I mean, there have been so many beautiful things that have taken place here in Minneapolis. And I'll tell you, this is another thing to remember, it’s January in Minneapolis.

KARL: It’s cold.

FREY: It’s like negative temperatures out there, but people have never felt warmer.

KARL: All right, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, thank you for joining us.

FREY: Thank you for having me.

KARL: And joining me now is Republican Congressman Michael McCaul, the chair emeritus of both the Foreign Affairs and Homeland Security Committees in the House.

Chairman McCaul, thank you for being here.

REP. MIKE MCCAUL (R-TX): Thanks for having me.

KARL: Let's start with what is happening in Minneapolis. Is it appropriate for the DOJ to open criminal investigations into the mayor and the governor?

MCCAUL: I mean, it's a federal offense to impede a federal investigation like we're seeing in the streets right now.

I think that is very uncommon to go after political figures like that. I think it may be more of a statement more than anything else. But you know, we'll see.

I think what's happening is --

(CROSSTALK)

KARL: Just -- because (ph) --

MCCAUL: -- in Minneapolis, though, I think we need to -- on both sides -- start calming down the rhetoric.

I'm glad the president did not invoke the Insurrection Act. To throw our military in the middle of all of this just sort of escalate the violence.

KARL: He still says he might. He's just not doing it now. And you saw that Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general, accused Walz and Frey of, quote, “engaging in terrorism.”

MCCAUL: No.

KARL: I mean, that's not turning the temperature down.

MCCAUL: No, it's not. It's not.

And they have federal law enforcement training at FLETC in Georgia. You know, I think maybe some need to go -- maybe have some enhanced training.

This is a very volatile situation. We've seen over a thousand percent increase in assaults on ICE officers. Eight thousand verbal assaults on them.

You know, seven out 10 of these arrests, though, are criminal aliens. And if you look at who they're -- who they're targeting in Minneapolis, because it is a sanctuary city --

KARL: Criminal aliens, they're criminal because they're here without documentation or engaged --

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAUL: No, that they -- these are aggravated felons. I mean, they -- they've arrested murderers in Minneapolis, drug traffickers.

The -- how did we get here, right? I passed ICE into law when I chaired Homeland a decade ago, bipartisan, overwhelming support.

How do we get to this point?

I think the prior administration let millions of people in. Mayorkas disregarded federal law, which says you shall detain aggravated felons, and instead told his agents you can release them.

So, now, we're dealing with all these aggravated felons throughout the United States.

KARL: You -- you're a former DOJ official as well.

MCCAUL: Correct.

KARL: Six prosecutors, as you know, in the Minneapolis U.S attorney's office resigned in protest of the fact that there were -- they were beginning to investigate Renee Good's wife, but they weren't conducting any investigation whatsoever into the person who shot her.

MCCAUL: Yeah. I can tell you the practice when I was there --

KARL: Yes.

MCCAUL: -- is you look at the whole scene, the whole crime scene, the whole investigation, which in my judgment should include, you know, both looking at, you know, the federal law enforcement officer's actions, but also Ms. Good's actions. You know, whether -- whether there are civil rights violations. I think that's why they resigned.

(CROSSTALK)

KARL: Yes. It seems like everybody's under investigation except for the person who actually pulled the trigger.

MCCAUL: There are a lot of equities here. I think the job of the investigator/prosecutor is to look at the whole crime scene and then determine, where do you have predication to go forward with a potential indictment? And I think that's why they resigned.

KARL: And, you know, when you -- when you look at it, it’s not only that there’s no criminal investigation, but you have seen the vice president of the United States, you have seen Stephen Miller, the deputy chief of staff, both of them have come out to say that ICE has

immunity. Vice President Vance said absolute immunity.

I mean it -- so the message is not only you won't be prosecuted, but hey, whatever you do, you're covered.

MCCAUL: Well, that's not -- that's not accurate. I mean, if there's an unlawful use of force, that is something that can be prosecuted by -- under federal law. I would say there's also --

KARL: So, when you say it's not -- that's not accurate, I mean, it's accurate that they said this. What's not accurate is -- is that -- that they don’t have immunity.

MCCAUL: What's not accurate is that they don't have full immunity if -- you know, if they violate the use of force laws. But at the same time, people who impede a federal investigation don't have immunity from that either.

And I think that's part of the problem. They have these barricades. They go in to effectuate a targeted arrest. And then -- and then the protesters come in. I think it's unwise for them to come in to do that.

So, I -- look, this is a -- this is a -- obviously, the rhetoric's gone way up. It's time to dial back.

KARL: So, I -- you've seen all the videos that are constantly coming out of what's happening in Minneapolis. Let me just play one of them.

This was an incident with a woman who was -- you know, in -- kind of driving into a situation. She was going to a doctor's appointment, apparently, and is obviously confused about what's going on.

But look at how the ICE officers deal with this, this woman who says she is disabled and is telling them that she is disabled and is on her way to a doctor's appointment.

I mean, what -- what do you think when you see this kind of stuff?

MCCAUL: No, the optics are -- let’s be honest, not good. They go through federal law enforcement training on conflict resolution, how to deal with that type of, you know, situation.

KARL: I mean, they smash the window of her car, they cut her out, they throw her to the ground.

MCCAUL: It appears to be a little overzealous, but what about the actions of the murderers and the drug traffickers and people who are --

KARL: Oh, those are horrible, but that’s not our government.

MCCAUL: Who are being -- who are let into this country by Joe Biden and Mayorkas.

KARL: Yes.

MCCAUL: What about -- what about -- what about the rights of average Americans from people, you know, like that?

And finally, on this door-to-door stop thing, you know, there's fundamental constitutional criminal law 101 is, a Terry stop, you cannot stop a person without reasonable suspicion a crime is being committed.

So -- but if you're impeding a federal investigation, which they (ph) think that’s what this is.

KARL: You can't just stop somebody because you think they look like they're an undocumented immigrant. You have to have a reason.

MCCAUL: No, that -- that would not be -- that would not be constitutional.

KARL: So, so in the just short time we have before we're done --

MCCAUL: Yes.

KARL: I want to put your foreign affairs hat on. What do you make of what's going on with the president in Greenland and now he's slapped tariffs on eight of our allies in Europe? He's not ruling out military force to get Greenland. What -- what is going on?

MCCAUL: Well, you know, Greenland has been looked at by presidents since we purchased Alaska. It is very strategic right now from a national security standpoint against China and Russia.

But in 1951, we signed a treaty with Denmark that allows us full access to Greenland to protect Greenland. And this was after World War II. President Truman initially was involved, and then Eisenhower.

And the fact is, the president has full military access to Greenland to protect us from any threats. So, if he wants to purchase Greenland, that's one thing. But for him to militarily invade would turn Article Five of NATO on its very head, and in essence, put us at war with NATO itself.

It would end up abolishing NATO as we know it, an organization that has lasted for over four to five decades and protected us from world wars. And my father was a bombardier in World War II. And it's worked to prevent world wars.

KARL: And as you have just said, there's actually no reason to because we have access to the island. We have a treaty that gives us --

MCCAUL: We have full military access. And if we want to put more military in there, we can. We don't have to invade it. If he wants to buy it, that’s fine, but I don’t see a willing seller right now.

KARL: All right, Chairman McCaul, thank you very much for joining us.

MCCAUL: Thanks for having me.

KARL: Coming up, top Senate Democrat Chris Van Hollen joins me right here in the studio. We’re back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: Welcome back. Joining me now is Senator Chris Van Hollen, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee in the Senate.

Senator Van Hollen, thank you for being here. I just want to start quickly on Iran. President promised those Iranian protesters help is on the way. We've now seen it looks like the, you know, up to 3,000, maybe more than 3,000 people have been killed. The protests seem possibly to have been quelled in much of the country. What should the U.S. do now?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Jon, first of all, what we've witnessed is another awful crackdown by a brutal Iranian regime. And we should do what we can to help support the Iranian people without being the world's policeman. I don't believe we should be using American military force to try to impose democracy on Iran. So we continue to place sanctions on this regime and call for change.

I do think when the president of the United States essentially says to protesters that we the United States will be there, we're backing you up and suggesting that we will be there with military force, he provides sort of unfounded encouragement to people who then are putting their lives at risk. So we should support the protesters. But the president of the United States should not suggest that we're going to come in there and provide military support to get rid of the regime.

KARL: He has said that the Iranian regime had planned to do these mass hangings, executions. And there were reports that there were going to be executions. He says that that now has been pulled back. Do we think that his threats had any impact on the ground? I mean --

VAN HOLLEN: President Trump says a lot of things.

KARL: Yes.

VAN HOLLEN: That are simply not true. And you've already talked about many of them this morning. I believe this is another case where President Trump tries to take credit for things that he did not do.

KARL: Now you met with senior officials from Denmark and Greenland this week. How alarmed are they with what Trump is talking about regarding Greenland?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, they're perplexed and alarmed because as you reported, Denmark and Greenland have both said to the United States, you can take what measures you need to protect the security of the United States and of course the NATO alliance. We have a base there already. And --

KARL: And we can expand that base.

VAN HOLLEN: And we can expand that base. I mean, you had that conversation with, you know, Congressman McCaul.

KARL: McCaul.

VAN HOLLEN: Which tells us that the president is lying to the American people when he says this is about security. This is not about security, Jon. This is about a land grab. Donald Trump wants to get his hands on the minerals and other resources of Greenland just like the real reason he went into Venezuela. Had nothing to do with stopping drugs from coming to the United States. It's all about getting his hands on American oil for his billionaire buddies.

In the case of Greenland, Ron Lauder, who's a huge Trump supporter, is the person who first told Trump, go after Greenland.

KARL: And is there anything that Congress can do about it? I mean, I'm hearing Republicans -- you heard McCaul, I'm hearing some of your Senate colleagues, Republican senator colleagues, very uneasy with what Trump is saying about Greenland. Is there anything you can do about it?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, with respect to use of force, if our Republican colleagues wanted to, they could. We could, for example, cut off any funds that could be used for military purposes with respect to Greenland. We could take action under the War Powers Resolution.

But a lot of our Republican colleagues talk big until it comes time to vote. We saw that just this past week, two Republican senators who had voted in favor of moving forward the War Powers resolution on Venezuela backed off.

So, they have to stop giving Donald Trump a blank check.

KARL: And on Minnesota, you have said that you won't vote for a single dollar to fund Trump's ICE operations until there are reforms.

So, what are you demanding? And is that leverage that can actually work?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, what -- it -- what I'm saying is exactly as you quoted, that I am not going to cast a vote, not one dime, to support this lawless, brutal Trump ICE operation.

So, what I'm saying is unless there are significant reforms to rein in this lawless ICE operation and there was a federal judge that just this week said that ICE agents were violating people's constitutional rights, right? They were preventing them from engaging in protected peaceful protest.

So, my view is there has to be dramatic change. I don't foresee this administration doing that at this moment. So, I'm saying I won't provide any funding.

KARL: I don't hear you saying what I'm hearing from a lot of others in the party, and the protesters certainly, to abolish ICE, but we are hearing those calls.

And I want to read you what your colleague Ruben Gallego said about this. He said, "Clearly, ICE is an absolute problem. They're out of control, moving way too fast. The last thing we need to do again is to make the same mistake when it comes to defund the police rhetoric.”

Are you worried that these calls to abolish ICE could be problematic for -- for the party? I mean, people might not like what they're seeing ICE doing, but they think our immigration law should be enforced.

VAN HOLLEN: Well -- well, yes, but what's happening right now is the ICE agents are the ones breaking the law, not the peaceful protesters.

So, I believe we should not be funding an ICE operation that is completely lawless. It needs dramatic reform. You know, Donald Trump said he was going to go after the, quote, “worst of the worst”.

If you look at their own data, 80 percent of the people they're apprehending around the country posed no public threat whatsoever. Instead of addressing that problem, they pulled down the data so we can no longer see it. And what happens if -- he seemed to back off the Insurrection Act, although even as he did it, he said, "I'll do it if I need to." And we know that troops have been put on standby, active duty troops have been put on standby.

What happens if he actually follows through with that threat?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think what he'd be doing is just putting another match on the fire. He'd be making people less safe in Minneapolis, not more safe. They already have 3,000 ICE agents in Minneapolis.

KARL: Again, with 600 police officers.

VAN HOLLEN: Right. So -- so, you don't need to militarize the situation even more.

I mean, the ICE agents are already engaged in essentially military-style tactics in many cases. I mean, the president has -- and his people are telling us to ignore our own eyes. Don't believe what we're seeing, whether it's with Renee Good or any of these other things.

And I think that's why the American people, we all want border security. I certainly want border security. We also don't -- we want -- we don't want the worst of the worst here. Anyone who's committing violent crime should be out of here fast.

But what we don't want is an out-of-control, lawless operation that's violating our constitutional rights.

KARL: All right. Senator Van Hollen, thank you very much for being here.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

KARL: Coming up, a rising Democratic star gets to take charge in New Jersey. Governor-elect Mikie Sherrill is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ELECT MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Here in New Jersey, we know that this nation has not ever been, nor will it ever be, ruled by kings.

(CROWD CHEERING)

SHERRILL: We take oaths to a constitution, not a king. We've chosen liberty, the very foundation of democracy, and we've chosen prosperity necessary to create opportunity for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: And joining me now, New Jersey Governor-elect, Mikie Sherrill, just two days ahead of her inauguration. We will drop the governor-elect title and the right to governor on Tuesday. Your election really sparked the imagination of a lot of, especially Democrats, around the country. What are the big-picture aspirations you have for your governorship?

SHERRILL: The big picture aspirations are actually in our state seal --

KARL: Yeah.

SHERRILL: Liberty and prosperity. It's what hundreds and hundreds of New Jerseyans, thousands have died for. That is what we're protecting because, in that prosperity, we're creating access to opportunity. And right now, the doors to opportunity are being shut down at every level. We see a president who constantly is running this tariff regime, putting more money in his own pocket, and raising costs on everybody else. So, we are fighting against that.

We're fighting to open up the doors to opportunity, to lower people's costs, to take on that affordability crisis, while at the same time, never backing away from rights and freedoms.

KARL: And that president you refer to, President Trump, spends a lot of time in New Jersey. He spends time there at his Bedminster Club in New Jersey, especially during the summer months. Have you talked to him since you won?

SHERRILL: I've not spoken to the president directly. I've spoken to people in the administration about some of the key needs of New Jersey.

KARL: And when you do talk to him, and you saw Mayor Mamdani actually went to Washington, met with him in the Oval Office, a very surprisingly friendly meeting it seemed. What is your message to him, and what has been your message to his administration?

SHERRILL: My message is that the area I represent is responsible for an incredible amount of innovation, for the nation's economy, and to continue to punish the people of New Jersey, who by the way send $70 billion more in federal taxes to the government than we receive back, to continue to attack opportunity, innovation, schools, jobs, cost of living, is madness.

I mean, this is the area where we can really grow the American economy, and instead, the president continues to focus on things like spending billions of dollars buying Greenland, and then putting tariffs up on Europe, like all of our NATO allies. Can you imagine the cost that that would be to everybody's pocketbook?

And I can guarantee you, after spending a year and speaking to thousands of people across the state, that there is not one person in New Jersey that wakes up in the morning and says, "Gee, I hope today's the day that the president dumps billions of dollars into buying Greenland, while my grocery store costs continue to go up." That's a trade, I mean, nobody wants that trade.

KARL: Well, it doesn't appear that it is for sale anyway --

(LAUGH)

KARL: So, we’ll see where this goes. But the tariffs are very much real.

What do you make of what's happening with ICE in Minneapolis?

SHERRILL: The president said he was going to use our American cities for practice for troops. He’s now put a deployment order out in Alaska.

KARL: Yes.

SHERRILL: To potentially put them on the streets. I think he is trying to incite the protesters. Somebody asked me yesterday, how have -- haven't the protests been peaceful? I said the protesters have been peaceful, but ICE hasn't been. They’re assaulting people on the street. They’re busting through windows in cars. People are driving their kids home from basketball practice getting tear-gassed. People are getting shot and killed by these out of control proto-military agents. And I think the president’s trying to incite the protesters so that he can take America's eyes off the fact that his militia that he’s building around this country is actually attacking American citizens.

KARL: You’re a military veteran, Navy veteran, ten years, I believe. What would it mean if he actually goes through with the threat to invoke the Insurrection Act and send those active duty troops that are now on standby into Minneapolis?

SHERRILL: Again, he seems to be trying to incite an insurrection so he can then put troops on the street for the insurrection. This is (INAUDIBLE) -- this is something that every single American should be concerned about. That we are somehow going to have to live our lives under military troops on the street. It is not how the troops should be used. I know there are -- as you mentioned, I served for almost 10 years. I'm a military veteran. My husband’s a military veteran. We have family members who are serving.

There are many people in our militarily who are just wondering how long they can hold out until they find themselves policing their own countrymen. These aren’t choices the military should have to make. They’re -- the only insurrections that are happening are the ones the president himself is inciting. That is not what the Insurrection Act is for. He’s continuing to twist our laws and our values to try to take over power. And it's inappropriate. And that is why, in New Jersey, I would say the opposition is forming. And it's starting in New Jersey.

KARL: And you won a big victory. I mean it was a 14-point victory. Kamala Harris won New Jersey, I believe, by six points. I mean, you did significantly better than Democrats had been doing.

What is the key for Democrats going into the midterm elections? I mean, what were the lessons that you learned that you think can be brought nationally?

SHERRILL: So, if you’re going to run a campaign, you need to do the nuts and bolts. You need to listen to people. I think too many people over time have started by, you know, this is -- this is where we're at. This is what we need to do. Get on the street and listen to your constituents or would-be constituents.

And so, I spoke to thousands of people. But the best thing I can do now for the Democratic Party is to govern effectively. To deliver on the promises I made. Because, as I've mentioned, there's an affordability crisis. What happened in New Jersey in 2025 was a realignment of many of our traditional -- our traditional base. So, working people. You’re talking about urban working people. You are talking about working class people in the suburbs and more rural areas aligning because they’re seeing their costs go up every single day. Many people took a chance on Trump in '24. Those same people that swung to me. Because he told them he was going to drive their costs down. And I -- as I went around the state, what I was hearing from people is that, huh, he seems to be making a ton of money and yet my costs keep going up. He said he was going to drive them down. And his, you know, plan to simply tell people, no, they’re not, the economy’s good, does not seem to be working very well.

KARL: All right. Well, it is great to have you here two days before your -- a couple days before you’re sworn in. We’ll talk to you once you get settled in in Trenton. Thank you very much.

SHERRILL: I appreciate it. Thank you.

KARL: All right, up next, a group of progressive Democratic senators say their party needs to go on the offense against billionaires and big corporations and to embrace a progressive form of populism.

We’re back with the roundtable in just a minute.

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JOE ROGAN, “THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE” HOST: I could also see the point of view that people say, yeah, but you don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around, snatching people up, many of which turn out to be U.S. citizens that just don't have their papers on them. Are we really going to be the Gestapo? “Where’s your papers?” Is that we’ve come to?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: That was Joe Rogan harshly criticizing the Trump administration’s immigrant -- immigration enforcement tactics this week.

The roundtable is here and next.

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KARL: Welcome back. The Roundtable is here. Former DNC Chair, Donna Brazile; Bernie Sanders' 2020 Campaign Manager, Faiz Shakir; SCOTUSBlog Editor, Sarah Isgur; and the Washington Free Beacon Editor-in-Chief, Eliana Johnson. Thank you all for being here.

So, Sarah, let me start with Minnesota, with you. Trump seems to have backed off the Insurrection Act for now, says he still may do it. Would he be justified in doing so? And can it be challenged if he attempts to bring active-duty U.S. military into Minneapolis?

SARAH ISGUR, EDITOR AT SCOTUSBLOG & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: The Insurrection Act is a much broader statutory scheme that has been around for 200-plus years. It will be very hard to challenge. Now, it's interesting to me that during the Biden administration, lots of people, conservatives and liberals, pointed out these problems with the Insurrection Act.

How a president could really have no constraints, no reporting requirements to Congress, no time limits on how long they could have the military there. There were bills that were proposed. They went nowhere. And so, here we are.

KARL: So it has broad authority.

ISGUR: Broad authority.

KARL: Well, Donna, where's this going?

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I mean, every week, there's another Democratic-led city that the president is harassing -- harassing. We were harassed here in Washington, D.C. I go home to New Orleans, they're being harassed by ICE agents.

ICE agents are terrorizing U.S. citizens, taking them off the streets, pulling them out of their homes. For what? I mean, there's a way to go after the so-called bad actors. There's a way to work with local law enforcement. But to terrorize people and to create all of this drama, for what reason?

The president is looking to basically beat down Democratic cities. He's not beating down Houston. He's not beating down cities in the red states. Yes, he came into my home state of Louisiana because the governor allowed him to.

I think the president needs to take a step back and see that these ICE agents, who just got another infusion of cash, they need to be vetted, they need to be trained, and they need to respect not just the citizens, but work with local and state officials. There's a way to get where he wants to go without terrorizing U.S. citizens.

ELIANA JOHNSON, WASHINGTON FREE BEACON EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Well, I would say it would be wonderful if federal officials could work with local and state officials in Minnesota. That would be the ideal. Unfortunately, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey have said they will not work with federal officials.

They've instructed law enforcement officers in Minnesota not to work with federal officials. Minneapolis is a sanctuary city and Mayor Frey was on here saying this is about love. You have protesters in Minneapolis who are not protesting. They are veering into criminal activity.

And you can dislike ICE, but President Trump ran on enforcing the nation's immigration laws, and we have protesters vandalizing the vehicles of federal officials, stealing their firearms, stealing documents. If you want to change the situation, you can change federal law, you can vote to defund ICE, but you cannot do what some of these people on the ground are doing.

KARL: But those images of grabbing people out of cars, smashing their windows, I mean, the tactics are overly aggressive, aren't they?

JOHNSON: I agree with you, Jon, that there may be a mismatch between what President Trump's mission is and what the public will support, and we're seeing some of that in the polling. At the same time, we have lawless behavior on the part of the protesters, and if local officials in the Twin Cities don't want the Insurrection Act invoked, they should be calling to lower the temperature and saying this is about love, while they are telling people, Walz and Frey, that innocent people are being kidnapped into vans.

They are describing law enforcement officers as alien invaders. They are speaking out of both sides of their mouths, and they should be called on it, and it should also be noted that Tim Walz had to announce he will not run for a third term because of his inability to govern the state effectively, and this is a distraction tactic for him.

KARL: It's not exactly the reason Walz gave for not running.

JOHNSON: Yeah. It's not what he said, of course, of course.

FAIZ SHAKIR, BERNIE SANDERS 2020 CAMPAIGN MANAGER & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I'm a pro-union guy, Jon, and a lot of these law enforcement officers, they're in unions, they have very hard jobs. I tend to operate from the perspective that the vast majority of them are doing good work trying to protect the country.

KARL: The vast majority of ICE officers.

SHAKIR: And law enforcement in general. Yes.

KARL: Yes.

SHAKIR: That's my operating assumption. They're in the sense of public service. They are operating at the sense of political leadership who's letting them down.

KARL: Yes.

SHAKIR: When you have a democracy, you operate in the consent of the governed. And that's how -- this is not authoritarianship. In a democracy, we have the consent of the governed. As a political leadership, you are trying to justify the credibility of the law. You're showing that -- it applies equally to all. That you defend and believe in the rule of order.

And what the president is doing is fraying that. He's saying, you know, if you're a protester, I may not be out for you. I may not be looking out for you. So you're on your own. Good luck. And what does that do to a society? Well, it fractures it unnecessarily because of the political leadership.

KARL: Is there a danger for Democrats with the abolish ICE talk, which we're hearing more and more of?

SHAKIR: I don't know that there's a danger. I think that --

KARL: Because --

SHAKIR: The opportunity, I would say, Jon, on the flip side of this is that as he ramps up and desire ICE, ICE, ICE, and Greenland, Greenland, Greenland, increasingly most Americans know that the economic concerns and pains that they're feeling are not being addressed. He's simultaneously cutting Medicaid, cutting housing assistance, cutting food assistance. So the opportunity is obviously the money. Where is it going? It is certainly not going to me. And then there's obvious ways where it is going, the ramping up of 5,000 to 15,000 ICE agents this year.

ISGUR: Politically, this is turning against Republicans. But at the midterm elections, it's not that people will have a choice of whether to have this interior enforcement or the other. The most popular immigration stance would be strong enforcement at the border like nuclear enforcement at the border, but weaker interior enforcement. No party is actually standing for that right now and you had Kristen Soltis Anderson, the pollster, telling "The New York Times," the best thing Republicans have going for them in the midterms is that they're running against the Democratic Party.

KARL: Speaking of Greenland, that was you, Donna, I just want to show you a poll. This is an interesting poll that Quinnipiac just had out in terms of what people think of this. 86 percent oppose taking Greenland by force, only 55 percent oppose buying it. 70 percent also oppose any military action in Iran.

Is this going to be something that's going to hurt Trump? I mean, this is not the kind of stuff that America First seemed to have been about.

BRAZILE: You know, I watched the protesters yesterday in both Greenland and Denmark and other places around the globe. It makes no sense. I mean, America -- we've had a treaty since 1951. At one time, we had 15,000 troops. There's no reason to invade or occupy Greenland. Right now, with the treaty, we could do practically everything.

KARL: This is what McCaul was saying. Yes.

BRAZILE: Well, yes, I agree with him. And clearly protect, we could protect Greenland from, quote-unquote, "Russia or China."

SHAKIR: But we owe it to the American public to let them know why is this happening? It doesn't make any sense, but it is happening. Why? Because there's a billionaire class led by Bezos, Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates, Peter Thiel, Sam Altman, they're invested in Greenland right now. They want those rare earth minerals. I have not heard any of those billionaires say, hey, Mr. President, this is a terrible idea. What are you doing? No, they are keeping their mouths shut. They are the beneficiaries --

KARL: Well, I didn't hear Bill Gates call for invading Greenland either. I mean --

SHAKIR: Yes, well, the president is saying I am doing this as the behest of business interest. This is not national security. This is the business interests of the billionaire class. And I have not heard the billionaire class say, hey, that doesn't stand for me.

KARL: By the way, there was a story that hasn't gotten much attention. But "Wall Street Journal" broke a story that President Trump has purchased up to $2 million in Netflix and Warner Brothers stock. He did this in December, on December 12th and December 16th. Just as he's saying that he's going to be the one that decides whether or not the merger between Warner Brothers and Netflix or Skydance would get approved.

ISGUR: Yes, well, the Republican Party of limited government is pretty much out the window. He also said he's going to control what broadcast for the Army-Navy game the networks can show. The grift is so -- running so deep. And frankly, we did see it in the previous administration. They're not nearly to this level. Where is the congressional action to pass the Stock Act and the Stock Act for the executive branch, that people aren't coming into D.C., you know, unable to afford rent and leaving D.C. as very wealthy?

KARL: What's -- I mean, the stock is a big rallying cry for Republicans for years. Now he's buying stock as he's saying he's going to be in charge of the merger?

JOHNSON: You know, I read into the piece. It said it's not quite clear, did the president himself do this? Did he have outside people doing it? But what appeared to me reading the piece was that, of all the money-making schemes the president has going out of the office, this one seems to be a relatively small one actually.

KARL: In terms of dollars.

JOHNSON: Exactly. Right?

(CROSSTALK)

JOHNSON: Sarah is right. You got a lot of money-making schemes going out of this (inaudible).

BRAZILE: But Jon, at a time when the American people are struggling, when they are still trying to make ends meet, the president appears to be enriching himself. I mean, rebuilding the East Wing of the White House, and that keeps changing the price tag.

KARL: Yeah.

BRAZILE: But this is just plainly wrong.

KARL: So we have a couple minutes left. Faiz, I want to ask you about, there's a group of liberal Senators, including Adam Schiff, Elizabeth Warren, Tina Smith, who have written a memo advising the party going into the midterms, "It would be a mistake to embrace an affordability agenda that fails to confront the billionaires and corporations, making it impossible for hardworking Americans to achieve an affordable middle-class life. Bland policy proposals without a narrative explaining who is getting screwed and who is doing the screwing will not work."

What I thought was interesting about the memo, though, is it was very light on actual specifics. Bland or not.

SHAKIR: My reaction was -- darn right, and we've got to get specifics.

KARL: Yeah.

SHAKIR: First of all, cancer drugs are incredibly high in this country.

KARL: Yeah.

SHAKIR: We've got to reduce the prices of them. Asthma inhalers need a price cap. Medical equipment that is everyday lives for many people, bring them down. Right to repair for small businesses and farmers.

The prosecution of crypto fraud throughout this country and the prediction markets, it's out of control. I mean, there's just fraud going on all over the damn place. We need to have a Medicare buy-in, as I've mentioned previously on this show.

Also, you know, the president's got a couple good ideas. Banning institutional investors from gobbling up single family homes. Credit card interest rate cap. We could be for them.

I don't think he's serious. And the reason why I don't think he's serious is when he is serious, he goes after Bill Cassidy. This week, we had Mike Johnson and John Thune come out, and against his credit card interest rate cap. Do you hear a peep from the president? Nothing.

So if you were serious about it, he's got an opportunity to get them done.

BRAZILE: I agree. It was light on substance, but I think the point is well taken, that the Democrats have to run for something and not just against Trump.

JOHNSON: And I would say if the president thinks the way to help Republicans in the midterms is to get on the side of Elizabeth Warren and Tina Smith and Adam Schiff, he is making a big mistake. Republicans should be worried.

ISGUR: I'm still looking for a conservative party, anymore there doesn't seem to be one, but you'd let me know when we're doing that again.

KARL: I mean, he's talking about taking ownership positions in major corporations. But --

ISGUR: And in the meantime, we're waiting for the Supreme Court to decide the tariffs case. And he's doling out more tariffs.

KARL: All right. We will be right back.

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KARL: And that is all for us today. Thank you for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight." Have a great day.

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