'This Week' Transcript 12-28-25: Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi & Rep. Mike Turner

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, December 28, 2025 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

JONATHAN KARL, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: President Trump meets today in Florida with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, just a day after Russia pounded Ukraine’s capital with hundreds of drones and missiles. "THIS WEEK" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: In the end, the decision will be up to Ukraine and up to Russia.

KARL: After intense Russian bombing over the Christmas holiday, President Zelenskyy meets with Trump as he seeks an end to the nearly four-year Russian invasion of his country.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Putin doesn't want peace. And we want peace.

KARL: As Trump tries again to play peacemaker, he orders more missile strikes against ISIS targets, this time in Nigeria. This morning, a live report from Palm Beach on Trump's high-stakes meeting today and Republican Congressman Mike Turner joins us in the studio.

History maker.

How do you want to be remembered?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Not so fast, I'm still here.

KARL: As Nancy Pelosi prepares to leave office, we sit down for an exclusive conversation about her groundbreaking path, her confrontations with Donald Trump, and the challenges ahead for Democrats.

And supreme setback.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to make Chicago really great again. And we're going to stop the scum (ph).

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): There is no invasion here.

KARL: The Supreme Court issues a surprise ruling, blocking President Trump from deploying National Guard troops in Chicago. Our roundtable on the end of Trump's winning streak at the high court and what this could mean for his agenda in 2026.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News it’s "THIS WEEK." Here now, Jonathan Karl.

KARL: Good morning. Welcome to "THIS WEEK."

I hope you all had a chance to relax and enjoy some time with family and loved ones over this Christmas holiday. As we prepare to celebrate the new year, there's little doubt that 2025 has been one of the most consequential and turbulent years in the history of American politics.

Donald Trump's return to the White House brought dramatic and profound changes, both at home and abroad. This morning, we’ll look back at some of the year's most important moments. And we’ll also hear from the woman who has long been Donald Trump's chief antagonist, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, as she prepares to leave Congress after nearly 40 years in office. We sat down for a wild ranging interview about her remarkable career, the lessons she's learned from confronting Trump and the challenges ahead for Democrats.

But we begin this morning with news out of Mar-a-Lago and out of Ukraine after Russia carried out one of the biggest overnight attacks on Ukraine’s capital in months. The president is set to host Ukraine’s leader at Mar-a-Lago. The latest bid to end the nearly four-year war with Russia.

Senior White House correspondent Selena Wang leads us off live from South Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SELINA WANG, ABC NEWS SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This holiday weekend, explosions rocking Kyiv, killing at least two, wounding dozens more. Ukraine's capital hit by the heaviest Russian attacks in months, leaving hundreds without power and families freezing. This Ukrainian woman saying, “they were shelling all night. We didn’t go out. We were at home, but we were hiding in the corridor. And then in the morning, we heard an explosion.”

The intense strikes coming just hours before Ukraine’s President Zelenskyy is set to meet President Trump at Mar-a-Lago. Zelenskyy pleading for help to end nearly four years of fighting.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: This attack is again Russia’s answer on our peace efforts. And it’s really showed that Putin doesn't want peace. And we want peace.

WANG (voice over): Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, and son-in-law, Jared Kushner, have spent weeks negotiating with both sides ahead of this high stakes meeting. Zelenskyy is pushing for stronger U.S. security guarantees as part of the 20-point peace plan. And he’s offering the idea of a demilitarized buffer zone in the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine. Territory Vladimir Putin has long sought to control.

Zelenskyy striking a positive tone, saying the peace agreement is “90 percent ready.” But Trump telling “Politico” that Zelenskyy, quote, “doesn't have anything until I approve it.” And as Russia's massive assaults continue, Putin is showing no signs he’s ready for compromise either, threatening on Saturday, if Ukraine rejects peace talks, Russia will press on with its military campaign.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: And Selina joins us now from Florida.

Selina, the president has another meeting tomorrow, this one with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. And that is not all that is going on. We saw on Christmas Day that the Trump administration launched strikes, military strikes, on ISIS targets in Nigeria. What do we know about that?

WANG: That's right, Jon. And we’re learning from a U.S. official that more than a dozen missiles were launched to ISIS targets in Nigeria. The Pentagon says that multiple ISIS terrorists were killed. U.S. and Nigeria authorities have confirmed that they worked together on this operation.

Now, President Trump says he ordered this attack because ISIS is killing Christians. But experts tell us that extremist groups in Nigeria have been indiscriminate in their violence. And, Jon, Secretary Pete Hegseth says there's more to come.

KARL: All right, Selina Wang.

Joining me now is Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio. He serves on the House Armed Services Committee.

So, before we get to the Ukraine news, let me ask you about the attacks on the ISIS targets.

Pete Hegseth did put out a statement on social media saying, “more to come.” Are we in -- now in a military conflict in Nigeria? What's going on?

REP. MIKE TURNER, (R) OHIO & ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE MEMBER: Well, Jon, this is a continuation, of course, of our conflict with ISIS. It's been, you know, around the world, Iraq, Syria. You’re seeing it now in Nigeria. This was undertaken, of course, with the Nigerian government. And this is, you know, a continuation of what we’re seeing of the conflict really around the world with ISIS.

KARL: It's interesting, the -- we’ve seen just in the past two weeks, you had those strikes in Nigeria. You had strikes in Syria.

TURNER: Still ISIS.

KARLL: Also against ISIS. And we’ve had a continuation of the attacks in the Caribbean on those alleged drug boats and suggestions President Trump has made that he could attack targets on land in Venezuela, maybe even Colombia. This is a very different approach to military force than we saw in his first term.

TURNER: Well, I mean, not necessarily. If you take, you know, the linear aspects of the foreign policy of the first term into the second term, you know, with respect to the policy of ISIS, it's very consistent, both in Iraq in defeating ISIS and then in Syria. And then, of course, here in Nigeria. And we’re, of course, seeing that ISIS around the world has not been defeated but will continue to be, you know, a target and something that, you know, with our allies we’re going to have to continue to -- to continue to respond to or they’re going to continue to be a threat.

KARL: So, let's turn to the meeting today with Zelenskyy. What's your sense? What's going to come of this?

TURNER: Well, you know, you showed the images of Putin continuing to remind us that this is a war of aggression. As Putin, you know, mercilessly pounds Kyiv and civilian homes. This is Putin reminding --

KARL: He’s hitting apartment complexes. I mean, he --

TURNER: Right. He’s reminding us that we can't be for this. You know, America, when they -- we -- when we, you know, address the issue of whose side we’re on, you can't be America first and be pro-Russia. You know, Russia is a self-declared adversary of the United States. And, you know, here they are mercilessly killing, you know, Ukrainians and trying to take Ukrainian land. So, the president has rightly said, you know, we need to end this war.

But when he goes for peace, Russia wants Ukrainian land. Ukrainians have, you know, unbelievably risen to, you know, prevent Russia from taking their land. Zelenskyy has led them for that. And now, as he meets -- Zelenskyy, he’s meeting the man who has led his country against Russian aggression.

So, in this peace process, you know, as Russia wants Ukrainian concessions, it's going to be much more difficult because Ukraine wants, of course, assurances that Russia is not going to come back, that the West is going to give them the assurances that they will deter Russia in the future. And that's going to be difficult to give the type of assurances that the West is going to rise to the occasion to keep Russia from just reassembling and coming back stronger.

KARL: I mean it seems like Zelenskyy is prepared to make actual concessions here. I mean, anything short of like, you know, expelling Russia from the territory that it has seized by force would be a concession. But he’s, it seems like in this latest plan, he’s willing, not only to cede some of the territory that Russia has taken, but also to back -- to move back from territory that Ukraine now controls in the form of a demilitarized zone. Is there any sense that Russia is ready to make any concessions as well?

TURNER: Well, not from what you’ve just seen last night. Remember, you know, even on Christmas, where they were asked to have a ceasefire, Russia has not agreed to any ceasefire. Russia continues to move forward. But -- but --

KARL: But they bombed on Christmas Day.

TURNER: On Christmas Day. But the Ukrainians continue to repel Russian aggression. The -- and the Ukrainians have been here before. Remember, you know, in the -- in -- when the disintegration of the Soviet Union, the Ukrainians gave up nuclear weapons for their independence and for an agreement that Russia would not invade them.

KARL: Right.

TURNER: That they would have security assurances in the future, which Russia has then violated.

So, now, they're asking for security assurances for the future to have their sovereignty, to have a future.

You know, obviously, we need to be on the side of what they want, which is sovereignty. They're on the side of democracy, liberty and, you know, Russia's on the side of authoritarianism and aggression.

KARL: Which side is Trump on?

TURNER: I -- you know, clearly, you know, Trump is on the side of peace, and he's trying to balance these two forces, which is very, very difficult to bring these two parties together.

But in balancing it, we have to understand that Russia's goal is to take from someone else their -- something that's theirs, and Ukraine --

KARL: But --

TURNER: -- has to have a sense of security assurances that Russia is not coming back.

KARL: But can I just ask you? Is he -- Trump has repeatedly said that Ukraine never should have started this war or words to that effect. I mean, Ukraine didn't start this war.

TURNER: Well --

KARL: They were invaded.

TURNER: Clearly.

KARL: So, how does that affect his effort to try to broker a peace deal?

TURNER: Clearly, a war of aggression is started by Russia, and it has been started by Russia.

KARL: Yeah.

TURNER: And I think that -- that in -- that Trump's sense of wanting peace is incredibly important, and I think it's a noble goal.

And I think we're getting closer. I think that Zelenskyy is coming with a plan that is workable and that could get us there.

And hopefully, with our allies in Europe that have come together which -- with they seem to be working and advancing the type of security assurances we're going to need with the United States, that hopefully, we can deter Russia in the future.

KARL: All right. Congressman Mike Turner, thank you very much.

TURNER: Thank you.

KARL: Appreciate it. A lot more to talk about this with you in the future. Appreciate it.

TURNER: Thank you.

KARL: Coming up, she's been called the biggest antagonist to Donald Trump in American politics. As Nancy Pelosi prepares to leave Congress, she talks to us about the biggest and most challenging moments of her career.

We're back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: Whether you agree with her or not, there is no real dispute that Nancy Pelosi is the most powerful woman in the history of American politics. After a nearly four-decade-long career in Congress, Pelosi will retire from the House after this term is up.

We caught up with her in Georgetown to take a look at her remarkable career and to discuss her advice to Democrats going forward.

The conversation starts with a look back at her very first campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: I want to go back to the very beginning, 1987.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Uh-huh.

KARL: You ran in a very crowded primary --

PELOSI: Yeah.

KARL: -- to represent San Francisco in Congress.

It was close. That race was close. What was that like?

PELOSI: Well, it was -- it was not any closer than we had anticipated.

KARL: Yes.

PELOSI: There were four elected officials in the race. And I had never run for public office and the rest. But I'm a big believer. And that's my Baltimore experience too is, you have to own the ground to win the election.

KARL: And ABC News interviewed you the day before the primary.

PELOSI: And I see it as a race to represent San Francisco. And I think the issue in the campaign is who can do that job best. Effectiveness is the issue.

KARL: Your slogan at that time, as you remember, Nancy Pelosi, a voice that will be heard.

PELOSI: It's funny, isn't it? Isn't that funny that I would become speaker of the House and, of course, my voice would be heard. But I never thought of that.

KARL (voice over): Along the way, Pelosi became the first woman to serve as party whip and the first woman to be minority leader.

REPORTER: Ms. Pelosi --

PELOSI: As you know, I'm not finished yet. I have been waiting over 200 years for this.

KARL (voice over): And in 2007, the first woman to hold the speaker's gavel.

PELOSI: The House will come to order.

I actually never intended to run for leadership. That's what's so funny about this. Because I got to -- I loved my committees, Appropriations, Intelligence. I have 30 years of Intelligence on there. And then, though we lost in '94, '96, '98, and it’s coming up to 2000 and I said, you know, being a party chair, I know how to win elections. And I'm just tired of losing.

KARL: I want to talk about your relationship with Trump because there were some real defining moments.

PELOSI: Yes.

KARL: And certainly some defining images. I mean, you stood up to him and his team in the Cabinet Room.

PELOSI: Yes.

KARL: There was the -- you’re ripping up his speech in the State of the Union Address.

PELOSI: Right.

KARL: The Oval Office meeting with you and Chuck Schumer, where you -- you know, you really get into it with him.

PELOSI: Yes.

KARL: What is your advice to Democrats on how to handle Trump?

PELOSI: Well, let me just say this first. All of those incidents you mentioned were spontaneous.

KARL: Yes.

PELOSI: I was in -- we went to the cabinet room to have a meeting, leadership, and the leadership of the executive branch on security and the rest. And it was a horrible meeting. I think this, people must have been embarrassed. If you look at the picture when I'm looking at him, they’ve got their heads down.

KARL: Yes, you see General Milley is kind of looking down.

PELOSI: Yes, there’s a -- but what -- you know what I'm saying when I go out the door?

KARL: Yes, what?

PELOSI: I'm leaving here because I've had it with you, Mr. President. With you, all roads lead to Putin.

KARL: And they put that picture out.

PELOSI: Yes. We're not even allowed to --

KARL: They put that picture out and said crazy Nancy is unhinged or whatever they said.

PELOSI: No, they did me a big favor.

KARL: Yes.

PELOSI: It was -- I got more requests for -- to sign that picture.

KARL: That picture.

PELOSI: People liked the tearing up of the speech. I didn't intend to go to the speech to tear it up. But I just -- the first part of it, I tore a page because he was lying. And then the next page. And then the next page. And I thought it was a manifesto of lies all throughout. So, I better just tear up the whole speech.

Now, the speeches are on strong paper.

KARL: Yes. Yes.

PELOSI: They’re on -- you know, so you have to do it a few times to get it done.

KARL: Yes.

PELOSI: But I had no intention of doing that. I thought my staff is going to die.

KARL: But throughout all that, was there ever a moment where you thought you could actually work with Donald Trump, actually --

PELOSI: Yes, of course. I mean, when we have an election, elections are elections. You respect the results and you -- and we try to work together.

KARL: So, if the Democrats win the House back --

PELOSI: Yes. No, no, when. When the Democrats win the House back, and we will.

KARL: So, how does the next Democratic speaker of the House deal with Donald Trump? What would be your advice? You’ve been there. You’ve done it.

PELOSI: Be yourself. Just do your own thing. Just be yourself. Hakeem Jeffries is ready. He’s eloquent. He’s respected by the members. He is a unifier. And he will have the same effect (ph).

KARL: But you have no doubt it will be Hakeem Jeffries?

PELOSI: None.

KARL: And I mean, do they go into investigations? Do you have more impeachment? Do you have another impeachment round? Or do you try to deal with him and get some -- you know, something done on all the other issues?

PELOSI: Get something done with him on all the other issues?

KARL: Yes.

PELOSI: Well, I think what you do is -- it's hard to get something that he will sign because of the problem that he is.

KARL: Right.

PELOSI: But you can hold up some of the things that they may put forth.

KARL: So, you can lock in from --

PELOSI: Plus, they have the power of the purse.

KARL: Yes.

PELOSI: I mean the power of the purse. He cannot -- look, right now, right now --

KARL: Yes.

PELOSI: The Republicans in the Congress have abolished the Congress. They just do what the president insists that they do. That will be over and --

KARL: So, that ends as soon as you have a Democratic speaker.

PELOSI: That ends as soon as we have the gavel. I'm not -- you know, in terms of impeachment, unless you have a -- I've said to people, the one person who was responsible for the impeachments of Donald Trump is Donald Trump. It's not something you decide to do. It's what violation of the Constitution he engages in. So, that's not something you say, oh, we're going to impeach him. But you can have the power of subpoena to get information from these agencies of government who are not supplying any information.

KARL: You had many highs as speaker. The darkest day must have been January 6th.

PELOSI: Absolutely.

KARL: And amazingly, your daughter Alexandra is with you.

PELOSI: She -- she was there, she took her sons.

KARL: Yeah.

PELOSI: -- because she wanted them to witness history. She took them when they were little babies to the day we passed the Affordable Care Act. And then this was going to be, to witness history, the certification of the electoral college is a big deal. It's a historic occasion. So, that's why she was there.

KARL: She's there and she's always got a camera on her.

PELOSI: She always has a camera, that's a different story. That's, it's almost attached to her.

KARL (voice-over): The remarkable footage her daughter Alexandra captured -- featured in the 2022 HBO documentary, "Pelosi in the House."

KARL: She is there right with you as you are whisked out of the Capitol. The leadership is being evacuated.

KARL (voiceover): The documentary captures the intensity of the day.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: There are people with guns trying to get into the House chamber.

KARL: As Speaker Pelosi pleads with military leaders to send in the National Guard --

PELOSI: Just pretend for a moment it was the Pentagon -- or the White House or some other entity that was under siege.

KARL: What's going through your head? I mean, we see the pictures, we see that the anguish, we see what's happening to the Capitol, what's going through your head?

PELOSI: Well, it was clear that the president of the United States had incited an insurrection. And we begged him to send the National Guard. Typical of him, he never represents the truth. He said, I was going to send it, but they didn't want it. Get out of here. Even Mitch McConnell was on the phone with us saying, get them here right away.

KARL: Yeah.

PELOSI: But they, they never sent them. This was -- one of the sad things. And January 6th was really sad of itself. But the sorrow of it also springs from the fact that this president is trying to rewrite history, have a different narrative of what happened that day. And what I saw that day was these people coming and they were going to have a bullet in my f-word head and they were going to hang, they had a noose for the Vice President of the United States.

They had Confederate flags under Lincoln's dome, the dome that Lincoln built. They're in there. They're defecating on the floor. They're insulting the people who make the Capitol nice. And of course, they beat up the police.

And he's trying to convince the American people. And his toadies that go along with him are -- are subscribing to that. And that's why we just cannot let that happen. That's -- what happened that day was horrible. It was an assault on the Capitol, the symbol of democracy to the world. It was an assault on the Congress, the day we honored our responsibility under the Constitution to certify the Electoral College, who was elected president, as an assault on the Constitution of the United States. It was horrible.

KARL: And we see what happened. Your office, they break into your office, they break things, they steal things. They're trying to find you. And when you -- Alexandra, once again, your daughter is with you when you come back into the Capitol and you said something. You said --

PELOSI (HBO DOC): I just feel sick at what he did at the Capitol and to the country today. He's got to pay a price for that.

KARL: Has he paid a price for it?

PELOSI: No, he's president of the United States now. But history will -- he'll pay a price in history. What really was bothering me at that time was I, you know, I'm respectful of the Office of Speaker, and I'm sorry that things got broken, but what I was really concerned about was the trauma it caused for the --

KARL: Your staff.

PELOSI: Members of Congress, our staff, but everyone's staff, everyone's staff. When I came back from the undisclosed location, and we went to the Ways and Means room, I saw the staff. What I saw in their eyes, I will never forgive them for that because --

KARL: Yeah.

PELOSI: -- they are idealistic young people, come to the capital of both parties to be part of making progress for our people. And this happened. And he's freeing them from -- now he wants to give them retribution, it's crazy.

KARL: You said something, there's an effort to rewrite history. For mill -- tens of millions of people in this country, that has been successful.

(CROSSTALK)

PELOSI: Yeah, for them. Yeah, for them.

KARL: They believe in an alternative reality of what's happened.

PELOSI: What happened stands. But our country cannot withstand an assault on the Capitol, the Congress, the Constitution, and the rest, and let that stand.

And I was very proud of our January 6th Committee. The works that they did with clarity, with patriotism, and the rest -- they were wonderful. They were wonderful.

KARL: How do you want to be remembered?

PELOSI: Not so fast, I'm still here.

(LAUGHTER)

PELOSI: Well, I’m -- I’m very proud of the Affordable Care Act. I think that it was -- it just made a big change in terms of what working families need for their health and their financial health. We'll continue to have that fight. It's not a value that is shared with the Republicans.

The healthcare bill was a way of not only meeting health needs, but financial needs of families.

So, if I were to be remembered for one thing, it would be the Affordable Care Act.

KARL: What's next Nancy Pelosi? What do you do now?

PELOSI: Well, we'll see. I've gotten many overtures, but I'm busy. I'm busy, and focused on winning the House for the Democrats, making Hakeem Jeffries the speaker of the House, and to take us to a better place.

And I'm a very prayerful person. I wear these bracelets. I believe -- I believe that if you have faith in the goodness of the American people, faith and love, that gives people hope. The American people are good and beautiful people.

Some of them have their, shall we say, challenges in terms of respect for other people. But by and large, the American people are good people. And I would like to see us take us back to a place where governance and politics understand that.

So, what's next for me is whatever I do in addition to winning the House for the Democrats is that we try to take the discussion to a place that believes in the goodness of the American people, that gives them hope.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: Our thanks to Nancy Pelosi for that.

Up next, a surprise ruling this week marked a rare loss for Donald Trump at the Supreme Court. We’ll be right back with the roundtable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: We’re here with the roundtable.

SCOTUSblog editor Sarah Isgur, Center for American Progress President and CEO Neera Tanden, ABC News Washington bureau chief Rick Klein, and CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings, the author of the new book "A Revolution of Common Sense."

OK, Sarah, let's get with the news out of the Supreme Court. Over the holidays, they were quite busy. A setback to Donald Trump on this issue of whether or not he can order the National Guard into Chicago.

SARAH ISGUR, EDITOR AT SCOTUSBLOG & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It's really an end to Donald Trump's winning streak on this emergency or interim docket where they decide what the status quo will be while these cases are pending. He’s lost twice in as many weeks here in December.

Now, I think an argument for that is that they really see, you know, Donald Trump's group of cases about being able to fire people in the executive branch, for instance, quite differently than sending the National Guard into American cities. And they basically said in this case, you might have other ways to do it, but this statute from Congress does not give you that ability.

KARL: So, can I ask you about -- there was a footnote and a concurring opinion to this.

ISGUR: Footnote four.

KARL: By Brett Kavanaugh. And I want to read it in its entirety. “The Fourth Amendment requires that immigration stops must be based on reasonable suspicion of illegal presence. Stops must be brief, arrests must be based on probable cause and officers must not employ excessive force.” And then he writes this, “moreover, the officers must not make interior immigration stops or arrests based on race or ethnicity.” What’s he -- that's quite a footnote. What’s he -- what are the implications for the mass deportations?

ISGUR: This is referring back -- this is referring back to another interim docket (ph) case back in September where Justice Kavanaugh said that race might be one salient factor as long as it was combined with all of those other factors. You know, those on the left have started calling them Kavanaugh stops, when you sort of do these stops in a Home Depot parking lot, for instance. Clearly what he’s trying to do there is clarify, he absolutely means that the Fourth Amendment factors remain the same of when you can stop someone for reasonable suspicion and that you cannot stop someone based on their race.

KARL: Scott.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & AUTHOR, 'A REVOLUTION OF COMMON SENSE': Well, look, I think, on the immigration piece, it's been his biggest success this year. It’s the biggest promise fulfilled. We’ve had 2.5 million people deported. A significant number of them were self-deported. You know, they used the government's app or just decided to leave the country all together. And so, when I talk to Republicans and Trump supporters around the country, they’re more than thrilled with the aggressive nature of it.

You know, we haven't passed any new immigration laws since Donald Trump became the president again. We’re just enforcing the laws that we have. Something the previous administration would not do. So, I know the left has treated this as a -- some big controversy, but I don't know what's controversial about the president just simply enforcing the laws that are on the books.

KARL: But this is a message sent by one of the people he put on the Supreme Court.

NEERA TANDEN, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS PRESIDENT & CEO: I mean it’s controversial to the Supreme Court.

KARL: Yes.

TANDEN: And the people who he appointed. So, it is, obviously, an issue for some Republicans because the Supreme Court reigned him in. And I’d say, what's fascinating now with these decisions is that it seems like it's dawning on the Supreme Court that there may be a Democratic president. And the powers that they are giving the president of the United States, the powers that they have sanctioned for Donald Trump are ones that would be, could be used by a Democratic president. And I think they are now thinking that he’s gone too far. I mean the idea that a president is putting National Guard troops into cities is a step too far for even this Supreme Court.

KARL: And this was a setback at the Supreme Court after a string of serious winning streaks. But, I mean, this could be the year of the Supreme Court.

RICK KLEIN, ABC NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Yes. And I think that is such an important point of this is that there is so much of the Trump agenda that is still before the court. Look at the whole tariffs issue. You’ve got -- you’ve got birthright citizenship. You have the opportunity for the court to still assert itself in a much -- in a much bigger way. And there’s so many pieces, to Scott's point, we’re not talking about a lot of new laws that happened in 2025. We’re talking about a lot of things that happened with executive power.

And, yes, he just went --

KARL: Congress didn't pass much of anything.

KLEIN: No, and I think it’s -- I think 2026 is going to bring even less of that as we get closer to the midterms.

KARL: Yes.

KLEIN: But what you will say -- see in the coming year is a lot of these legal strategies kind of coming home to roost and potentially getting slapped back a little bit. And I think he has won a lot more than he’s lost in the courts, but that might not always be the case.

KARL: Are we going to hear about tariffs in January?

ISGUR: I think January is a very important month for tariffs. If we don’t hear about tariffs in January, that could be very good for the president. But I suspect we, in fact, will hear about tariffs.

It’s also worth noting, Donald Trump, in his first term, had the worst record at the Supreme Court of any administration in history, including the Biden administration that came after him. So, we are still very early. We have not seen the Supreme Court rule on Donald Trump's executive orders and policies. All of this stuff about winning streaks has all been the temporary status quo rulings from the Supreme Court.

So, wait until June to make a determination on exactly what the Supreme Court looks like. But he has not been fairing particularly well with his three nominees, Gorsuch, Barrett and Kavanaugh in particular.

KARL: How does he respond that the Supreme Court says the tariffs, the reciprocal tariffs are unconstitutional?

JENNINGS: Well, as you’ll read in my book, “A Revolution of Common Sense,” which, by the way, you’ve missed Christmas, but this will make an amazing Valentine's Day gift for your sweetie, he’ll be apoplectic because the president believes that the tariff strategy is working. Look at GDP growth. Look at the stock market. Inflation is coming down. Growth’s going up. He thinks -- and Bessent, you talk to Bessent, he thinks we’re going to have a boom in 2026 because of the long-term reengineering of the U.S. economy they’ve employed, largely on the back of tariffs. But he’ll be apoplectic.

And, of course, it would also depend on whether the court rules that you have to give the money back that’s come in.

KARL: Yes.

JENNINGS: How you ever untangle all that, I don't know.

The president would also tell you, it's not just an economic tool. It's a diplomatic tool. He thinks a lot of the conflicts that he solved this year, which he’s very proud of, some of it, maybe more than half of them, were because he had the power to threaten these people with tariffs. And so, he thinks it will make the country weak, the presidency weaker and that it will sort of destabilize what he’s trying to do with the U.S. economy.

ISGUR: And to be clear, the Supreme Court does rule against him on tariffs. They will say he is welcome to go to Congress to get these diplomatic tools, to get these revenue tools. He just can’t --

KARL: It’s not that he can't have tariffs. It’s that Congress must --

ISGUR: Absolutely. And he controls -- his party controls both houses of Congress. Why has he not done this?

KARL: OK, so let's -- let’s take a look back at the year that was. You know, you have to -- looking at Trump, in some ways, for all the outrage that Democrats have expressed, it has been a year of promises made and promises kept. I mean this is the stuff he campaigned on by and large.

TANDEN: That's true. And I think what's fascinating about where we are, he definitely campaigned on the tariffs. But the tariffs are the least popular item on the president's agenda. And I think it is because people see -- I think this has been a year of afford -- on affordability. People are really concerned about prices. And Donald Trump and Republicans have actually raised prices for people.

So, I think we can talk about GDP. And, you know, when we were in the Biden administration, people definitely talked about GDP because it looked really great. But what really mattered --

KARL: Because the numbers looked good, as they did in the last year of Biden.

TANDEN: Yes. But the truth is that people were deeply anxious about making ends meet. And the big difference is that Donald Trump has passed tariffs, which lots of Republicans like, but the American people, particularly independents, think that they drive up costs, because they do. And that has been a big challenge for the president's numbers.

KLEIN: And it’s interesting, Jon, we end the year with all the successes that he’s had in delivering on his agenda. You see these fractures emerging inside his party.

You know, I was struck. I think -- I think the biggest story of the past year was the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And I think we have learned more about Kirk's influence since he passed because we’ve seen since then an inability of anyone to sort of corral that movement in the same way. And you just started to see the fraying. And it’s like -- it’s -- as Sarah said, he still controls his party in an incredible way.

But that isn't necessarily lasting. And as you get into this year with the midterms and then people start talking about 2028, you see more of that drift. And he has not locked in some of these successes with legislation. That's what makes this year ahead so interesting because you could see a lot of push and pull along the way.

KARL: Yes, how does -- how does the kind of divide in MAGA, which is a relatively new phenomenon -- I mean there was always a little bit there. But, I mean, I don't think -- if I were to say what the most surprising story was, I would say Marjorie Taylor Greene becomes not just a Trump critic but a --

JENNINGS: MTG became a lib. I mean -- I mean that’s what happened this year.

KARL: Yes.

JENNINGS: She got a little bent out of shape because the president wouldn't support her for a state-wide office in Georgia, which she was going to lose if she had gotten into it, by the way. And so she goes off the deep end.

Look, I don't think these divisions and all this fraying are as big a deal as some people make it out to be. Trump is still extraordinarily popular among Republicans. He’s the strongest party boss in the modern era. And he can get his allies in Congress to do most anything he wants them to do. Which is why I think in the coming year they really ought to spend some time trying to codify, to Rick’s point, his executive orders and some of the other initiatives that he’s had. Really try to make it stick and really fight it out because I think a lot of the things he did would actually be pretty popular political debates to have. And so, why not spend a little time on that? And it would give him something to do this year.

He's going to have to get out in the country too and, you know, Neera’s making the case against the Trump economy, but the line can be drawn between what he is doing and what mess was left. You started to see him do this in his address to the country.

But that's another project for 2026. Get out and become the salesman in chief for the Republican agenda. He did it in '24 to great success.

KARL: Okay. I want to get your predictions. But before we do, Mamdani gets sworn in. Zohran Mamdani is the mayor of New York is just three days. What’s that going to look like?

KLEIN: What a moment.

KARL: Yeah.

KLEIN: Think about things you didn't see coming. None of us, I think, knew his name or could pronounce his name a year ago.

KARL: Right.

KLEIN: And here he is. He's going to be the mayor of the nation's largest city. And he's already got the makings potentially of a working relationship with an ideological opposite in President Trump.

This is going to be fascinating. He's actually has to run the city in addition to being kind of a spokesman for Democrats, someone that people are going to look to nationwide. He's got to actually do the job of running New York.

TANDEN: I mean, I think that's exactly right. He has to get the rents down. He has to make sure the city runs well.

But I think a lot of people look at the fact that he was able to get Donald Trump to basically compliment him, take off all these ads. Just the week before that, Mike Johnson was like, we're going to run against Mamdani, and then week later, all those ads disappear.

KARL: That was a hell of a meeting.

(LAUGHTER)

KARL: So -- I mean, it was -- hats off to that.

JENNINGS: Well, look, he's a New Yorker and he -- and he wants, you know?

KARL: All right. We have -- we have about a minute left. I want to get predictions from everybody.

You kick us off, Sarah.

ISGUR: The Supreme Court will be an even bigger story in 2026 than it was in 2025 because Donald Trump will not work with Congress. Congress is no longer a separate branch of government. And so, it will be the Supreme Court telling the president what he can do alone, what he has to go through Congress. It's not a 6-3 court. It will look far more like a 3-3-3 court where Gorsuch, Alito, and Thomas are as likely to be in dissent as the three liberal justices.

JENNINGS: Nobel Prize. I think Donald Trump's going to win the Nobel Prize. And we'll all --

KARL: Why? Because he solved the Ukraine.

JENNINGS: I think -- I think that we will see an end to the war this year. We should pray for an end to this killing and this war.

TANDEN: Democrats win the House comfortably and get at least 50 seats in the Senate.

KARL: Rick, bring it home. What do you got?

KLEIN: Bears win the Super Bowl, first time in 40 years.

(LAUGHTER)

KLEIN: And all this redistricting stuff that we spent so much of 2025 talking about, I think it matters just about not at all as to who controls the House.

KARL: All right, coming up, the biggest and most shocking developments and what mattered most in 2025.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: As we head toward the New Year, here's a look back at the moments that mattered most in 2025.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I, Donald John Trump --

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump began his second term emboldened.

TRUMP: A tide of change is sweeping the country.

MIKE MUSE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Trump 2.0 is much more political savvy.

AARON KATERSKY, ABC NEWS SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: He is testing power in ways that other presidents never even imagined doing.

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He wasted absolutely no time.

TRUMP: Today I will sign a series of historic, executive orders.

DANIELLE ALVAREZ, SENIOR ADVISOR, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: He had wanted to get right in, get those executive orders signed and get right to work.

SCOTT: Ending DEI. Ending birthright citizenship. Creating DOGE.

DOGE, or the Department of Government Efficiency, was really Elon Musk's brainchild.

ELON MUSK: This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy.

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHTIE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It’s stated aim was to eliminate waste, fraud and abuse across the federal government.

MUSK: The people voted for major government reform.

JAY O’BRIEN, ABC NEWS CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: DOGE enacts this widespread campaign of federal filings. Entire agencies like USAID were shuttered.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): No one elected Elon Musk to nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, COMEDIAN, “SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE”: Donald, what are you doing in my office?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tesla stock tanked. You saw protests at Tesla dealerships around the country.

BRAD MIELKE, HOST AND MANAGING EDITOR, “START HERE” PODCAST: We see Elon Musk retreat. But really everyone in Washington understands this as President Trump got tired of you, dude. Get out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The agency fell far short of its goal to cut $1 trillion from the federal government.

MIELKE: But it still had a huge effect. There are thousands of government employees that don't have jobs anymore that used to.

TRUMP: We will tariff and tax foreign countries to enrich our citizens.

BRUCE: Tariffs and the threat of tariffs are essentially the cornerstone of Donald Trump's economic policy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are something that he imposed nearly right away.

BRUCE: And it has been head spinning at times to keep track of where are we imposing the tariffs, where are we rolling them back?

KARL: During the campaign, Trump promised that he would be the retribution.

TRUMP: I am your retribution. I am your retribution.

ISGUR: We’ve seen it for law firms, universities, individuals who were his allies, individuals he saw as his political enemies.

BRUCE: He is doing everything he can to wield his power, to wield the power of the Justice Department, to do his own personal political bidding. And he’s pardoned a lot of people.

ISGUR: He has pardoned people who have written him nice letters. He has pardoned drug kingpins.

THOMAS: The legacy will forever be tied to the fact that he pardoned all the January 6th defendants.

TRUMP: These were people that actually love our country.

All illegal entry will immediately be halted.

O’BRIEN: It's immigration that becomes one of the critical, polarizing issues very early on.

ALVAREZ: And we secured the southern border. We know that that was an issue that he’s been talking about since before he was first elected.

THOMAS: President Trump is in the process of presiding over the greatest exodus of people out of this country maybe in modern history.

KRISTI NOEM, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Leave now. If you don't, we will find you and we will deport you. You will never return.

TREVOR AULT, ABC NEWS NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The way they are attacking this is unlike anything we’ve seen before. Armed agents, sometimes masked, showing up on the streets, pulling people out of cars, pulling people out of homes. Some people supporting it wholeheartedly saying this is long overdue, some people say this is monstrous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, the president orders the National Guard into Los Angeles to squash immigration protests.

O’BRIEN: We saw immigration protests across the country, from L.A., to Charlotte, to Chicago, nationwide.

BRUCE: It has been incredibly chaotic, incredibly tense and has led to a lot of legal challenges.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: President Trump facing a political firestorm over the Jeffrey Epstein files, dividing his base and putting the president on the defensive.

TRUMP: Are you still stalking about Jeffrey Epstein?

KATERSKY: Trump took office fully telling his supporters that he was going to release all of the files that the Justice Department had in its possession related to Jeffrey Epstein. And then he didn't.

THOMAS: And guess what? This has been political nuclear fission. It’s been that hot of an issue.

TRUMP: So, this is a Democrat hoax that never ends.

KATHERINE FAULDERS, ABC NEWS WASHINGTON MANAGING EDITOR: This turned into a congressional investigation, by Republicans by the way.

KATERSKY: And he fought tooth and nail against the release, until it became clear that Republicans would resist and make sure that they voted to release all those files. And at that point, Trump capitulated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On this vote, the yeas are 427, the nays are one. The bill is passed.

KARL: This may be the biggest political defeat that Donald Trump has suffered, period, from his own party.

ISGUR: And, obviously, Marjorie Taylor Greene, one of the Republicans leading the charge on this.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): The country deserves transparency in these files.

BRUCE: Trump denies any wrongdoing. He insists he knew nothing about Epstein's criminal behavior.

MIELKE: At one point, there's an election. And you almost see in real time Americans go, we're not huge fans of this administration right now.

LINSEY DAVIS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR:  ABC News has now projected three major wins for Democrats.

MIELKE:  So, in Virginia, you had Abigail Spanberger, the first woman governor of Virginia. In New Jersey, you had Mikie Sherrill win. And in New York City, you had Democratic socialist named Zohran Mamdani go to a landslide victory over Andrew Cuomo.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY):  Democrats have all of the momentum.

BRUCE:  If there was one word that defined the election we saw just a few months ago, it was affordability.

REBECCA JARVIS, ABC NEWS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT:  People see job opportunities going down. They see prices at the grocery store that remain high. They see housing costs that remain high. And they’re not feeling optimistic.

BRUCE:  And remember, the number one reason Donald Trump returned to the White House was to tackle the economy.

ALVAREZ:  It will be interesting as we head into the new year, as you know, his middle class tax cuts will take effect on January 1. No tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime. I think we’ll be seeing bigger paychecks.

BRUCE:  Next year, the wild ride is going to continue.

SCOTT:  The midterms are going to be crucial.

ALVAREZ:  We’re going to see the president very focused on the issues that matter most to voters.

KARL:  What's coming in 2026 is a dramatic test of Donald Trump's power and his popular appeal in this country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL:  And you can see the full two-hour ABC special "The Year" hosted by Robin Roberts tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL:  As we turn the page to 2026, we want to recognize the hard work of the many people who make this show possible each and every week. Have a safe and happy New Year.

(MUSIC)