'This Week' Transcript 8-23-26: Texas Gov. Greg Abbott

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, August 23, 2026 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JONATHAN KARL, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: It’s Canada versus the United States. A new trade war with America’s closest ally has begun. “THIS WEEK” starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: Trade negotiations with Canada collapsed at the eleventh hour.

MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We can’t control the storm that blows in from Washington.

KARL: And, fever pitch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not want a data center in this county.

KARL: Bipartisan backlash over A.I. data centers reaches a crescendo with Texas at the epicenter.

GOV. GREG ABBOTT, (R) TEXAS: I have pressed pause on any new data center.

KARL: A central issue going into the midterms.

Why are Texas voters so unhappy with the Republicans right now?

Critical battles play out in the Lone Star State.

But I'm asking you right now --

ABBOTT: The same ideology of Mamdani is on the ballot box in the state of Texas.

KARL: But I’m asking you about what Trump is doing.

This morning, we’re on the ground in Austin for an exclusive interview with Texas Governor Greg Abbott. And Elizabeth Schulze is on the road.

ELIZABETH SCHULZE, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This has already been going on for three hours. No sign of stopping.

KARL: White House makeover.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It’s very exciting. Very exciting.

KARL: And --

DAVID HUME KENNERLY, FORMER CHIEF WHITE HOUSE PHOTOGRAPHER: President Ford once told me, your tombstone should read, here lies the worst source in Washington.

KARL: We sit down with Pulitzer Prize winner and former chief White House photographer David Kennerly to discuss his new book, “In the Room: 60 Years on the Front Lines of History.”

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News it’s “THIS WEEK,” Here now, Jonathan Karl.

KARL: Good morning. Welcome to “THIS WEEK.”

We will get to our exclusive interview with Texas Governor Greg Abbott in a moment. But we begin with breaking news involving America’s relationship with our closest ally. This weekend, tense trade negotiations broke down, triggering major new U.S. tariffs against Canada, with the Canadian prime minister vowing to match those tariffs dollar for dollar. Prime Minister Mark Carney declaring, quote, “America has changed.”

Let’s get right to senior political correspondent Rachel Scott at the White House.

Good morning, Rachel.

We seem to be witnessing a breakdown in relations with Canada that seems to go beyond trade.

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, good morning to you.

And this really did come down to the wire. These talks completely collapsing between the U.S. and Canada. And this morning, Americans are now bracing for an all-out trade war with one of our closest allies and also our neighbor to the north.

So, President Trump has now imposed a 50 percent tariff on about $20 billion in Canadian goods. He says that Canada wants the benefits of being a state without actually being one. Well, Mark Carney, Canada’s prime minister, is not backing down. He says that Canada will match those tariffs dollar for dollar, imposing tariffs on a sweeping amount of goods, apparel, electronics, paper goods and steel. And that would start on September 8th. So that means, for Americans here at home, they could see prices increase. We could also see small businesses be hit.

But, John, listen, you mentioned it here. And this goes far beyond trade because this also impacts our relationship with Canada. And Carney did not mince words. He says that America is attacking Canada, at one point even comparing it to being at war with America.

John.

KARL: Striking.

Rachel, I want to ask you about something else that we’re just hearing. “The New York Times” has reported that Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and all-purpose envoy, met recently with Democratic House Leader Hakeem Jeffries. What do you know about this?

SCOTT: Yes, John. And I just got off the phone with a source who is confirming that Kushner did, in fact, meet with Leader Jeffries in recent weeks. I’m told the focus of this was try to find some common ground on where Democrats and the Trump administration could work together. That certainly is striking as we’re less than 75 days to the midterm elections and Democrats are hoping to retake the House, John.

KARL: Thank you, Rachel.

We turn now to an issue shaking up the midterm elections. Voter anger and anxiety about artificial intelligence, especially the massive data centers being built across the country. Those data centers powered the incredible advancements we are seeing in A.I. They’ve brought construction jobs, and they also use a heck of a lot of electricity and water, sometimes driving up the price of both for neighboring communities. That’s helped trigger a big voter backlash. And political leaders in both parties are scrambling to respond.

We’ve been tracking it all, and so has our Elizabeth Schulze.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not want a data center in this county.

ELIZABETH SCHULZE, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In communities across the country, the backlash against the rapid buildout of A.I. data centers is reaching a fever pitch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not consent.

SCHULZE (voice over): We went inside a town hall in rural Franklin County, Missouri.

SCHULZE: This has already been going on for three hours. No sign of stopping.

SCHULZE (voice over): For 13 hours, hundreds of residents uniting in protest of two proposed data centers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This issue brings Republicans and Democrats together.

SCHULZE (voice over): For months, our team has documented battles like this one playing out from coast to coast.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need clarity, and we need it now.

SCHULZE (voice over): Tech giants are pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into the massive facilities that store thousands of computer chips and keep A.I. running, promising they’ll bring jobs and spur capital investment in their communities. But many residents fear data centers will spike utility bills, drain water resources and destroy farmland. The issue exploding ahead of the midterms, defying traditional party lines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He’s been called the face of data centers in Ohio.

SCHULZE (voice over): In a private memo this week, the National Republican Senatorial Committee warning top A.I. companies that data centers could be killing the party’s chances of holding the key Senate seat in Ohio. In Michigan this week, Republican Senate Candidate Mike Rogers backtracked, coming out in support of a one-year moratorium on new data centers.

MIKE ROGERS, (R) MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE & FORMER CONGRESSMAN: I think we need to take a pause, probably, and make sure that we’re answering all the questions that people have on them.

SCHULZE (voice over): And in Pennsylvania, Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro, who spent years courting data centers --

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO, (D) PENNSYLVANIA: They don’t have to look any further than right here in our commonwealth.

SCHULZE (voice over): This week imposed new restrictions on them.

SHAPIRO: They shouldn’t get a tax break for gouging our communities.

SCHULZE (voice over): Some Republican governors also joining the opposition.

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA: You should not, as a hard-working Floridian, have to subsidize some of the wealthiest companies in the history of humanity.

SCHULZE (voice over): Texas Governor Greg Abbott once dubbed his state the epicenter of A.I. development.

GOV. GREG ABBOTT, (R) TEXAS: That truly is a Texas-sized investment in our state.

SCHULZE (voice over): An ABC News analysis found Texas is now among the states with the most data centers, with more than 300 in operation and at least 200 more in the pipeline. But as opposition grows in Texas communities --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my investment, my home, and it’s being ruined.

SCHULZE (voice over): The issue roils the governor’s re-election campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Greg Abbott. Abbott took $20 million in campaign donations from data center executives and companies, and he gave them billions in tax breaks.

SCHULZE (voice over): Abbott now reversing course.

ABBOTT: We must prohibit them from building A.I. data centers in rural Texas neighborhoods.

SCHULZE (voice over): Putting a freeze on new data center projects as the state audits them for energy, water usage and tax incentives. A move President Trump called a mistake.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For Texas to say no to data centers is a mistake in the sense that it could be bigger than oil.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: As you heard Elizabeth report, Texas Republican Governor Greg Abbott once vowed to make his state the, quote, “epicenter of the A.I. industry.” Now he has put in place a moratorium on data center construction. That issue, along with inflation and anxiety about the Iran War is among the factors that have Texas Republicans nervous about the midterms. The non-partisan Cook Political Report, which rates elections across the country, this week rated the Texas Senate race a toss-up, suggesting Democrats have a real chance of winning a seat they haven’t won in decades.

We traveled to Austin to talk to the Lone Star State’s most powerful Republican, a leader who is also facing a tougher than expected campaign for re-election as governor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: Governor Abbott, thank you for having us.

GOV. GREG ABBOTT, (R) TEXAS: Great to have you in Texas.

KARL: So, how much anger and concern are you hearing out there about data centers?

ABBOTT: So, listen, what we’ve been focused on is responding to concerns that have been raised about data centers and making sure that we have created a structure that’s going to do more than any state to solve the problem. As governor, I have outlined the greatest detail and most comprehensive plan of any governor in the United States of America to respond to the data center challenge.

Let me tell you what I’ve done. I have pressed pause on any new data center being able to join the operations in the state of Texas. I --

KARL: And other governors have done the same. Yes.

ABBOTT: And -- well, here’s the deal. During that pause, I have set guidelines and guardrails that all data centers have to comply with. Number one, they must identify what water usage they’re demanding and make clear they are not taking water from communities that need it. Number two, they must not take power from the Texas power grid that’s needed. Number three, they must actually lower the cost of electricity for consumers.

Number four, they need to make sure that they are not disturbing neighborhoods or rural communities.

These are standards that are now being universally applied by all the data centers in the state of Texas.

KARL:  But you're -- I mean, we see it not just in Texas. We see it all over the country. I mean some of these town hall meetings, some of these public hearings, real anger.

What is driving it? Is it the energy costs? Is it the -- what is driving the anger?

ABBOTT:  So --

KARL:  You're out there talking to people.

ABBOTT:  One thing is the rapidity that these data centers are coming online, that people didn't see coming. The other is the way that the data centers, they didn't do their job to get the support of people in local communities. Gaining the support of people in local communities is essential.

Because they did not do that, that's why I am now coming in as governor saying, listen, if you're a data center and you want to operate in Texas, you have to first get the approval of those in local communities.

KARL:  In the community, that makes sense.

ABBOTT:  And that's why I set that standard.

KARL:  But --

ABBOTT:  No data centers disturbing local communities in Texas.

KARL:  It was last year that you said that Texas was the epicenter of the A.I. industry. In hindsight, did Texas move too fast?

ABBOTT:  It wasn't Texas that was moving fast, it was these data centers.

KARL:  But they needed approval from, you know, from in -- from the government.

ABBOTT:  Well, so what data centers we're doing, and this is the problem that we are facing here in Texas, but you mentioned what's going on nationally.

KARL:  Sure.

ABBOTT:  And that is, they pop up in places that nobody ever heard of before, until they started the construction. And so they had not been working in collaboration with the state, they'd not been in collaboration with local governments, and so they basically dug their own grave for the problem that's been caused for them, and that's why they got the backlash they deserve.

And that's why these new standards are in place to make sure they're not going to be able to operate until they come into compliance with the standards that I have set.

KARL:  The approvals here in this state happened with astonishing speed. I mean, the New York Times recently went through some of this. One massive power plant for a Meta data center approved in 20 days, another in just three days, and another in two days. I mean, was that -- was that a mistake?

ABBOTT:  Well, so the way that it works in Texas, they didn't get approvals from the state of Texas --

KARL:  They had to get approvals to build those power plants to power their data centers.

ABBOTT:  So to actually begin the data center, they don't need to get approval from the State of Texas, which is the way the law currently works. One thing that they would need to do, eventually, is to get the approval to plug into the power grid.

However, in Meta, for example, out in El Paso, they are outside the Texas power grid there. And so they weren't required to be a part of getting the approval from the power grid. That said --

KARL:  So there was like no public notice, there was no approval.

ABBOTT:  Well, no -- there was at the local level there in El Paso. However, because my guidelines and guardrails that I've set up are so clear, the Meta data center in El Paso, which is outside the Texas power grid area, they have announced they will be in full compliance with the guardrails and guidelines that I've set out.

KARL:  So this is happening in the backdrop, obviously, of the midterm elections.

Let me ask you, the way Trump put it recently, just not that long ago. He said that voters in the country are angry at Republicans. And he said it twice. He emphasized it. It's not anger at him, angry at the Republicans. Is he right?

ABBOTT:  Well, I can speak for Texas, not these other states. And what I know very well in Texas is the attitude of Republicans, and what matters most is where their mindset is going to be on Election Day. On Election Day --

KARL:  But I'm talking about right now. How does it feel right now out there?

ABBOTT:  Listen, what matters in elections is not in August, what matters in elections is November. And I know what's going to happen in November, and that is there's a choice at the ballot box. And when those voters go in, they're going to choose between common sense that's offered by Republicans versus the crazy that's offered by the Democrats.

KARL:  So, you travel the state a lot. What do you hear from voters in places like Abilene? When you get out there and, you know, they see Trump building, wanting to build the ballroom, talking about it almost every day, showing off his new helipad, talking about building a big arch, putting all the gold around.

I mean, is that the kind of stuff that voters want the President of the United States to be focused on?

ABBOTT:  I was with voters from Abilene last night --

KARL:  Okay, there you go.

ABBOTT:  And I pressed them repeatedly. I said, tell me how things are going, what are your thoughts, are you guys happy, what do you like?

These people were ebullient. They said they could never be happier. They're so excited about being in Texas, they are excited about the growth, the economic growth that we have in our state, they excited about their community. And so, I kept pressing to see if there was maybe any soft spot whatsoever.

KARL:  Maybe this was a self-chosen crowd that are coming to see you.

ABBOTT:  No, no.

KARL:  I mean, you see it, that there's anxiety not just in Texas, but all across the country. I mean, concerns about prices, concerns about where the economy is going. And I'm just asking, I mean, when you see the president out there talking about all the money he's -- you

know, wants spent at the White House to make it more beautiful, I mean, do people want that?

ABBOTT: So, let’s be clear, they --

KARL: It’s a lot of time. You have to admit, it’s a lot of time that he’s just -- the other day, 40 minutes he was out there showing off his helipad.

ABBOTT: And let’s be clear about something else.

KARL: Yes.

ABBOTT: And that is, listen, with regard to anxiety by voters, there are two components to that. One is, I know for a fact in Texas voters are very concerned about this expansion of these socialistic ideas by people like Mamdani and all the Mamdani acolytes. And in Texas, the last thing that we want to have happen is to have a Mamdani acolyte get elected to office in the state of Texas. And yet that’s exactly what is being offered by the Democrats on the statewide ticket.

KARL: But what I’m asking you right now --

ABBOTT: The same ideology of Mamdani is on the ballot box in the state of Texas.

KARL: But I’m asking you about what Trump is doing. Let me just ask you very specifically on the question of keeping prices down, which is obviously a central part of the campaign that we saw last night. What grade would you give him on keeping prices down?

ABBOTT: Well, I’ll answer that. But in the context of your question, what I’m hearing on the campaign trail, people are not talking to me about Trump. We’re talking about the contrast that exists between Republicans and Democrats in Texas.

One thing, of course, with regard to prices, everyone wants to see the price of oil go down. They want to see the price of what they pay at the pump go down. And that is one thing that we’re working to address candidly. One of the things I’ve been working on in my campaign is, I have the most robust campaign platform to provide affordability to people in the state of Texas, lowering housing costs, lowering health care costs, lowering auto insurance costs, lowering the cost of living in a home by slashing property taxes in the state of Texas. And so we are providing answers and solutions to our fellow Texans that don’t have anything to do whatsoever with what’s going on in Washington, D.C.

KARL: So, what grade would you -- so, what grade would give him?

ABBOTT: It depends on what category you’re talking about.

KARL: I said about keeping prices low.

ABBOTT: Well, listen, we all need to have prices lowered, especially at the price of the pump. And I think the president is on a track to get us there.

KARL: So, you said recently that the price of gas in Texas would be below $2 by the end of the summer. Are voters going to punish you and other Republicans if it’s not? Because, right now, the average is $3.60 a gallon here in Texas. And we’re -- and we’re --

ABBOTT: Yes.

KARL: And we’re halfway through August. More than halfway through.

ABBOTT: So, when voters go vote in November, they will -- they will vote on contrast and make a choice about, do they want the Republican or the Democrat candidate. And the answer to that’s far more complex than just one price point about oil.

KARL: Yes, but you said it was going to be below $2. So --

ABBOTT: I get that.

KARL: Yes.

ABBOTT: But also I say that I want safe communities, whereas our opponents, they vote to defund the police. I say that I want to cut taxes, where our opponents, they’ll jack up costs far more than the price of gas. Our opponents, they voted for a state income tax. They voted for a death tax. They voted to increase property taxes. When voters realize that, when these Democrats want to increase property taxes, they will vote --

KARL: And they’re not going to mind if gas is still over $3 a gallon.

ABBOTT: Let me tell you what, the cost of what Texans are paying because of their property taxes is outrageously high, and it’s the Democrats who voted to increase those property taxes even more.

KARL: Do you still think gas will be below $2 a gallon by the end of the summer?

ABBOTT: If the president maintains the current trajectory that he’s on right now, they should be. And let me explain why.

KARL: That’s a --

ABBOTT: And that’s because the kinetic battle with regard to --

KARL: Iran.

ABBOTT: Iran appears to be over. As long as there’s no missiles flying that threaten the Strait of Hormuz and things like that.

KARL: OK, so, I've heard from Republicans, Texas Republicans, who have real concerns about Ken Paxton, the nominee for Senate or for your party. They say he’s not working hard enough. He’s not raising money. He’s got too much baggage. Do you share some of those concerns?

ABBOTT: Well, let’s put it in context where Ken Paxton --

KARL: You --

ABBOTT: Ken Paxton is in his campaign, and that is, he was in a three-month long runoff that demanded capital, that demanded campaigning, demanded his attention. And so, he’s just now catching up in the campaign process with Talarico. Listen, I’ve talked to him, and we’re working with him. And he knows clearly the contrast he’s going to be able to show with Talarico. He --Talarico got away with something. And that is with Ken Paxton campaigning against John Cornyn as opposed to Talarico.

KARL: I mean, you’re going to go after him hard. I have no doubt. Paxton’s going to go after him hard. But I’m asking about Paxton. I mean, when -- in that -- in that runoff, John Cornyn said he was the kiss of death for Republicans and for the Republican ticket in 2026. It would be an albatross on the party. Said if he’s the nominee, “we could well experience a massacre and the first Democrat elected statewide.”

ABBOTT: Elections are about choices. And when voters go to make a choice on November the 3rd, the contrast they will see between Ken Paxton and James Talarico is so extraordinary. That choice is going to be easy. And they'll be voting for Ken Paxton, and they'll be voting against James Talarico.

KARL: Let me ask you about the future of the party. What do you -- what happens after Trump? Is there an heir apparent? Is it J.D. Vance?

ABBOTT: Listen, who knows if there's an heir apparent right now. What I can tell you is this. And that is the Republican bench is far stronger than the Democrat bench. And it's going to be a massive contrast for the next presidential election, where we have all of the DSA candidates, the Democrat Socialists of America, who are lining up to try to take over the next helm of the future of the Democrat Party. And they are trying to take America down a direction that Americans will solidly reject versus a great lineup of potential Republican candidates.

KARL: So you don't think Vance is the presumptive --

ABBOTT: I don't think anybody should be categorized as the presumptive nominee. What I can tell you is J.D. would be a great candidate, Rubio would be great candidate. There are many governors who would be great candidates.

KARL: Are you going to run?

ABBOTT: Listen, I'm focused singularly on one thing, and that is winning my election here, representing the state of Texas. I was --

KARL: But you don't --

ABBOTT: No, no, listen. I was born in Texas. I was raised in Texas. My daily job is to fight for Texas. It means something to be a Texan. And my goal is to make sure we live up to that standard and keep Texas, Texas.

KARL: You're running for an unprecedented fourth term. You're not going to run for a fifth, are you, if you win this time?

ABBOTT: But you know, as Trump says, I may run for a fifth term, or sixth term, seventh term, who knows?

KARL: You don't have term limits. He does.

ABBOTT: Bottom line is this, and that is, I look at only what is right in front of me. Now, what's right in front of me is making sure that I do my part, not just to win the election, I do my part to make sure that we keep Texas, Texas.

KARL: All right, Governor Abbott, thank you very much. Appreciate your time.

ABBOTT: You got it. Thank you. Good to have you here.

KARL: And coming up, we've learned more about that secret meeting between Democratic House Leader Hakeem Jeffries and the president's son-in-law Jared Kushner. Our roundtable is here with me and we are back in just two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: Welcome back. The roundtable is here. We have former DNC chair Donna Brazile, Bernie Sanders' former campaign manager Faiz Shakir, "Washington Free Beacon" editor Eliana Johnson, and editor of the "National Review," Ramesh Kumar.

All right, Donna, you know more about this meeting. What do you know? Hakeem Jeffries, in the midst of this campaign, sits down in New York with Jared Kushner. What did they talk about?

DONNA BRAZILE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, they know each other from

their past working on a criminal justice bill during their first Trump term.

Look, Leader Jeffries is focused on winning back the House. And I'm sure he wanted to inform Mr. Kushner of the Democratic Party's priorities, which is to have a governing majority that delivers for the American people, talks about affordability.

But there's no question that the White House is reaching out. They are making overtures. They're trying to figure out what the Democratic agenda might be, because they know Democrats have a great chance of winning back the House as well as the Senate.

KARL:  “The Times” says the rare engagement, this is a quote from the article, was held in a private space in New York City, offered up by a mutual friend of the two.

Tell me, Ramesh, the White House doesn't have this meeting unless they think it's a real possibility Democrats take over the House.

RAMESH PONNURU, NATIONAL REVIEW EDITOR AND ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  This is not a White House that has prioritized strong relationships with the Democratic Party in Congress.

KARL:  Yes.

PONNURU:  And so, yes, I don't think it's a vote of confidence in Republicans keeping the House. And it's not going to be received that way among House Republican campaign leaders.

ELIANA JOHNSON, WASHINGTON FREE BEACON EDITOR-IN-CHIEF:  Look, John, I think we're told they talked about -- Jared Kushner wanted to talk about housing, immigration and the cost of living. The president may very well think if the Democrats take the House, he wants to work on some legacy issues with the Democrat-controlled Congress.

I think if the Democrats take the House, they're going to be focused on three very different things. And those are investigations, investigations and investigations.

KARL:  Yeah?

FAIZ SHAKIR, BERNIE SANDERS 2020 CAMPAIGN MANAGER & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  In his State of the Union, the president said he was going to offer a great American health care plan. Breaking news, he has not.

He's cut about a trillion and a half from health care over the past -- next 10 years, Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies. The opportunity for Democrats to offer, when you say cost of living, affordability, health care has got to be up there. If you talk to regular working class people, it's number one.

And so I'm hoping that that's a demand of Jared Kushner. What do you got? Is there a plan? And that the Democrats should have one. In addition to that, A.I. data centers, right, regulation.

In his State of the Union, the president said we're going to ban private equity, purchase of large institutional housing, we're going to cap credit card interest rates. We're going to do all these other progressive things. Those could form the basis of working together.

I'm glad they're talking, but I don't hold out a lot of hope that the president is thinking about working class people right now.

KARL:  OK, but let's go to the next. Let's do the hypothetical.

Democrats win. They win the House, maybe win the Senate. They're going to want to go after Trump hard in the investigations, as Eliana said.

But what I hear you saying --

SHAKIR:  It's not --

KARL:  There is -- there is a real possibility both --

(CROSSTALK)

SHAKIR:  If the American people --

KARL:  -- get something --

SHAKIR:  -- delivered the majority to the House in the Senate to Democrats, it is in part not only a condemnation of Trump and the agenda that he's on, but a desire and a hope that, hey, please do something for my life.

And I hope that many Democrats are thinking that, hey, just because President Trump is in office doesn't mean he won't sign some stuff.

If you pass a minimum wage increase and put it on the president's desk, would he sign it? I don't know. But it is incumbent and a responsibility on Democrats to say, hey, now that we have power, we're going to give you an agenda that works for working class people and force the president to have to veto some stuff.

BRAZILE:  We have to make sure that we protect the social safety net in this country. There are millions of Americans as they prepare to bring get their kids back to school, they're suffering. They're suffering with high grocery prices, high gas prices, utility costs. Democrats will have to deliver for the American people.

And yes, we need Article One, the Congress of the United States to provide oversight and accountability because the American people also see this administration getting away with everything.

KARL:  But, Eliana, if Trump is like on defense, they're coming after him, maybe they're trying to impeach him, investigations, oversight all around -- is this the moment he tries to be the dealmaker? Is this the Trump that met with Kim Jong-un and sent Jared Kushner to meet with Hamas?

Is there -- is there a desire in that Trump White House to actually get something done with a Democratic Congress?

JOHNSON:  Well, I do think you've seen the president focused on legacy issues in his own way. I think that's -- that was why he did the Iran war and second term presidents, that's where their focus is.

And I think that's the motivation for this as well. So, yes, I think he will be focused on his legacy when he's a lame duck in the final two years.

By contrast, I think Democrats, if they take the House, if they take the Senate, they're going to be focused on the White House. It's natural. The second the midterms end --

BRAZILE:  It’s not true.

JOHNSON:  -- they're going to be focused on 2028, and what those investigations can produce to better set them up to take the White House in 2028.

BRAZILE:  Y'all will really see it when you --

PONNURU:  I feel as though the standards are being set way too high here. A big bipartisan cooperation on things like housing, I do not see.

I would be surprised if we didn't have government shutdowns in the next Congress with the Democrats controlling Congress and the Republicans in the White House. I think getting the bare minimum done is going to be enough of a challenge without trying to accomplish major bipartisan achievements.

KARL:  Shutdowns is what we saw last time Democrats took over in the middle of a of a Trump term. So let me ask you, you brought up the issue of data centers, Faiz. What did you make of, of what we heard from Greg Abbott?

(LAUGH)

KARL:  I mean, this is like a --

SHAKIR:  He was obviously a cheerleader for the whole thing, and now he wants to walk away from the mess and say, oh, I'm going to regulate them.

KARL:  By the way, his path is similar to Shapiro's.

SHAKIR:  Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, it's a whole bunch of them.

KARL:  Yeah.

SHAKIR:  When working-class people were standing up, many politicians were not listening to them. They were taking checks from A.I. companies and saying, hey, you got the permits, go run with it. In my mind, you know, I hope if Democrats come into the House and the Senate, it's not just to end the subsidies for some of these A.I. companies. It is to ask them to be taxed.

There's trillions of dollars sloshing around in data center development. And at the same time, you're cutting a trillion dollars from health care. It is embarrassing. It's immoral to go before the American public and say, oh, sorry, we don't have money in the federal budget to pay for health care. We have to cut it.

And then you watch, literally, hundreds of billions of dollars get sprinkled around this entire country. That's immoral. And you should be demanding that if you want to build data centers, we got to get some revenue. The American people are going to stand to benefit here.

KARL:  Is that an argument Trump would be open to?

PONNURU:  Republicans are in--

KARL:  I mean, he has already nationalized some --

(LAUGH)

KARL:  -- partially nationalized some companies.

(LAUGH)

PONNURU:  He might be open to that. But the problem that Republicans have right now is A.I. is the success story in this economy. Without A.I., it is a very bad economy. With A.I., it's a mediocre economy.

KARL:  It's certainly driven all the stock market gains.

PONNURU:  And Republicans are already in a hole on the economy. And now, there's this political attack on the part of the economy that's actually working. And it's a popular attack. That's the problem.

BRAZILE:  When you got -- when you have people from rural Georgia and places in Virginia and everywhere across this country, they're opposed to these centers because they don't see the companies investing in the community.

They don't see the companies investing in the local workforce. They don't see the companies doing what is necessary to get the buy-in from the citizens, not just the politicians. That's why this is another populist issue out there that's going to hurt Republicans.

Look, it is about to (ph) change --

(CROSSTALK)

PONNURU:  -- people don't feel they have control over.

BRAZILE:  It might help the economy. Look, we all know if you have stock in some of these companies that you may have gotten a little bit of -- got some money. But at the same time, it is devastating. These communities, they get the noise, the buzzing. They get the fact that their water bill, their electricity bill, people are feeling.

KARL:  Pollution.

BRAZILE:  Yeah.

SHAKIR:  And they don't want Grok.

(CROSSTALK)

I mean, I don't think working-class people are being sold, well, Grok's going to be so great for my life or that my kids are going to be addicted to screens and sitting in the classrooms watching A.I. The whole notion of, OK, building the data center to do what? Don't fool yourself.

I don't think people are sold on even that.

JOHNSON:  I don't blame Greg Abbott or Republicans or any of the Democrats for making the argument that they're making -- their job is to win elections. But I think they're wrong. And one of the words that none of them said is China.

On this issue, though President Trump has been poorly messaging a lot of issues, I think he's absolutely right. And he's taken flake for it.

KARL:  If you stop here, China will take over A.I. and God knows what happens after that. But let me let me turn -- we just have a little bit time left. I want to go back to the Democrats, if you don't mind, Donna.

We saw the primaries. We saw another Democratic Socialist of America member win a race in Florida for Democratic nominee for governor. But we also saw in Alaska the race for the Senate up there where the number one candidate came in is Mary Peltola.

BRAZILE:  Yeah.

KARL:  I want to play something from one of her ads. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY PELTOLA, (D-FL) SENATE CANDIDATE:  There's only one thing that matters to me, getting the job done for Alaska. And I'll take on anyone, including Democrats, anyone in the Lower 48 who doesn't understand what Alaska needs.

They don't get that resource development is about our survival. They don't get that firearms are for feeding our families and protecting ourselves, that a secure border keeps all Americans safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL:  So a lot of attention on the DSA, progressive candidates that have won. They've won some key races. That, to me, was interesting because there's a Democrat who is running against the party, it seems, running for border security, Second Amendment gun rights. Where's the party going?

BRAZILE:  First of all, she's a native Alaskan. She knows what the people of Alaska need. And she's addressing their concerns.

Look, I love these candidates. I've never seen so much Ben and Jerry that was spread across the country, as I've seen this last these last couple of months with Democrats, progressive, moderates. They're all winning their races. Why? Because they're focusing on local issues.

Angie Dixon came from nowhere, severely outspent, down in Florida. She's now the Senate nominee.

KARL:  They've (ph) spent like 16 to one or something, right?

SHAKIR:  19 to one.

BRAZILE:  19 to one.

KARL:  19 to one, so what happened there?

BRAZILE:  Because she talks to local people. She's an organizer.

SHAKIR:  She did probably hundreds of -- 500 events.

BRAZILE: Rallies.

SHAKIR: Or, I mean, Abdul El-Sayed, when he won, hundreds and hundreds of events. And when you see a populism, we think of, what is this populist surge about. It’s not just an ideology; it’s a sense that I want to reconnect with the anger and the frustration that people are feeling right now, and I want to get close to it. I want to hear them. And right now the -- a lot of the worst politicians right now are sitting up on high in Oval Office rooms, detached from the feelings of working class people.

BRAZILE: The reality. Yes.

KARL: Ramesh.

PONNURU: The Democratic socialists winning these races is one of the few things that is going in Republicans’ favor in this general election. If you look at Michigan, for example, you know, with Trump at 33 percent nationally, a state like Michigan, a competitive state, should be an absolute gimme for the Democrats. Trump started a trade war with Canada on the border with Michigan. A lot of Michigan exports go there.

KARL: Which is going to raise some prices in Michigan.

PONNURU: But the DSA candidate gives Republicans a chance.

KARL: All right, we got to take a quick break.

With gas prices high and the war with Iran still in a stalemate, the president summoned reporters to the White House this week for a much different reason.

Stay with us. We’re back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: Not long ago, President Trump asked me whether I thought he was a better builder or a better politician. When I didn’t directly answer the question, he answered for himself, I think I may be a better builder, he told me.

Where previous presidents measured their legacy in foreign policy achievements or domestic legislation, Donald Trump sees changing the physical grounds of the White House and of Washington, D.C., as central to his legacy. Some Republican leaders privately say they wish that he would focus more on the concerns of voters. But President Trump made it perfectly clear this week the building spree is not slowing down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice over): With pressure mounting to end the war in Iran, voter anxiety about rising prices and the national debt surpassing $40 trillion this week, President Trump turned his focus elsewhere.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This isn’t for me. This is for many presidents. They will have it for a long time.

KARL (voice over): He summoned White House reporters for a nearly 40-minute White House construction tour.

TRUMP: And right over there, if you notice, is where the ballroom and military complex will be.

KARL (voice over): Touting new grass.

TRUMP: The grass was in terrible shape, and we have a great man that works here for 54 years, Dale. And he said, you know, it’d be nice to be able to change the grass. You know, grass has a life like humans have a life.

If you're grass, you're very happy.

KARL (voice-over):  His new flagpole.

TRUMP:  And this is a great pole. This is the top of the line. It's tapered.

This isn't a straight up and down job, which looks terrible, frankly. That's a tapered pole. Great. I'm very good at flagpoles.

KARL (voice-over):  And then he took reporters to see his latest addition, his new helipad for Marine One.

TRUMP:  Nice job, fellas.

KARL (voice-over):  Placing gold coins on the granite.

TRUMP:  And these will go like that.

KARL (voice-over):  Signing a slab engraved with his name.

TRUMP: That looks pretty good.

KARL (voice-over):  Trump claimed the new helipad would be more than just a place for a helicopter to land.

TRUMP:  They can have events on it. They can have people go there for cocktails and then walk to the ballroom.

KARL (voice-over):  Legal challenges haven't slowed construction of that massive 90,000 square foot ballroom, significantly bigger than the White House itself.

Trump posted this picture of the construction over the weekend, “It's now 65 percent complete with a 250-person crew working 20 hours a day, seven days a week,” according to legal filings.

TRUMP:  It's a lawsuit that should have never been even allowed to be brought.

KARL (voice-over):  Trump is giving the White House its most expensive makeover in more than 80 years. He's paved over much of the Rose Garden, splashed gold all over the Oval Office, including a sign outside and redone the colonnade.

The president's renovations will cost more than $900 million, according to “The Washington Post”. It's unclear how much of it will fall on the taxpayer.

What is clear, it's a major priority for Trump.

TRUMP:  I'm a real good developer. And frankly, I used to -- it used to make me sick to look at how horrible the condition was where the stone was broken. The columns were -- had big chips in them, foot long, and it was terrible. And now it's perfect.

KARL (voice-over):  Trump's efforts to remake Washington in his image have extended beyond the White House. He's revamped the Reflecting Pool, a project that's been plagued with problems. And he's planning a 250-foot triumphal arch.

And then there's the Kennedy Center. The board says it will put his name back on the building, despite an earlier court ruling to take it down.

With the clock ticking on his second term, it's legacy time for Donald Trump, doing everything he can to make sure his name is front and center long after his presidency is over.

TRUMP:  I think it’s going to be here for a long time. This will be here long after we're gone. No matter what happens with the world, this is not moving.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL:  Coming up, he's photographed every president since LBJ. Up next, my conversation with the man who has had a front-row seat to history for six decades.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL:  You're looking at the iconic photo of Ali versus Frazier from 1971 taken by one of the most accomplished photographers of our time.

My conversation with David Hume Kennerly is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL:  You may not know his name, but you have almost certainly seen his photographs. David Hume Kennerly won a Pulitzer Prize when he was just 25-years-old, and for the last six decades, he has been there when history is being made. His incredible archive is stored at the Center for Creative Photography at the University of Arizona, and we got a sneak preview of this book coming out this fall.

"In the Room: 60 Years on The Front Lines of History" -- it's a book filled with stunning, history-defining photographs and the fascinating stories behind them. And because Kennerly has captured moments both triumphant and horrific, a warning, some of these pictures are graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice-over):  He was there when Nixon resigned, ringside the first time Muhammad Ali lost a fight. He was among the first to witness the cult horror in Jonestown. He was with Reagan and Ford at the 1976 Republican Convention, and when Reagan first met Gorbachev.

He was with Barack and Michelle Obama the day Obama became president, in Trump Tower after Donald Trump was first elected. And he has been there, it seems, whenever presidents gather together. We caught up with David Hume Kennerly at his home in Los Angeles to get a sneak peek at his remarkable upcoming book, "In the Room: 60 Years on The Front Lines of History."

Kennerly was 19 years old when he got his first big assignment, covering Senator Robert F. Kennedy in 1966 for the Oregon Journal.

DAVID HUME KENNERLY, FORMER CHIEF WHITE HOUSE PHOTOGRAPHER:  He came in and had this huge crowd, and I couldn't get into the room. And at the periphery of the crowd was this Life magazine photographer, Bill Eppridge, whom I didn't know, but it looked like he was traveling with Kennedy. And I said -- went over to him, I said, how do you get into this room? And I panicked.

KARL:  Yeah.

KENNERLY:  I don't go back --

KARL:  19-years-old.

KENNERLY:  -- until the editor -- I couldn't get in to shoot photos. And so he said, hang on to my coat, kiddy (ph), zipped me through, put me up on the stage.

KARL:  And there's a picture of you on the stage.

(LAUGH)

KENNERLY:  Yeah, so that photo shows me looking at Kennedy.

KARL:  Yeah.

KENNERLY:  And then the picture I took is still, to this day, one of my favorites. But what happened afterwards, the little motorcade went out to the airport, and Kennedy gets up, runs up, turns around, waves. Then Bill Eppridge, the photographer, went up, pointed to me, went into the plane, the door closed, and takes off into the night.

And it was a profound moment where I thought, I want to be on that airplane. And two years later, I got on the plane with Robert Kennedy in the '68 campaign. That really has defined my life. And thank you, Robert Kennedy, Sr.

KARL (voice-over):  Five years later, another big break. He found a way to be ringside for the fight of the century.

KARL:  I mean, some of my favorite photos in here. You're there ringside with Muhammad Ali, the Ali-Frazier fight.

KENNERLY: The big coup de grace was the 15th round of Ali getting knocked down by Joe Frazier. And I and Elliott Erwitt were the only two photographers to get that shot. And my photograph ended up the next day, which was my 24th birthday, on the cover of "The New York Times," which had to make the five "New York Times" staffers who were there really unhappy.

KARL: Who's this punk that has their photo on the front page?

KENNERLY: You know, I'm sorry, I'm going -- I'm out of here. I'm going to Vietnam. That was the last assignment I covered before I left.

KARL: Ali-Frazier fight was your last assignment before you went to Vietnam.

KENNERLY: That was it. And I went to Vietnam, which was probably safer than being around those photographers.

KARL (voice-over): The Ali-Frazier photo, along with several others he took in Vietnam, made him one of the youngest ever to win the Pulitzer Prize.

KENNERLY: The funny thing about it was I didn't know I'd been entered. The first thing I heard about it was I got a telex in Saigon, which is a telegram saying that I'd won the Pulitzer Prize. I thought it was a big joke. Why are you doing that? You know, being pranked by the boys. And they said, no, you did. Now we need to know where you were when you heard about it.

KARL (voice-over): Kennerly got back to Washington just in time to witness the scandals that brought down a president and a vice president. When Spiro Agnew resigned in disgrace over tax evasion, Kennerly was tapped to photograph one of his potential replacements as vice president, Gerald Ford.

KENNERLY: My first "TIME" cover and his first "TIME" cover I took the day that Nixon announced him replacing Agnew, who had resigned as vice president, and he said -- he had received a call. He said, I think you're wasting your time. I said, well, at least you'll have a nice picture. We immediately hit it off. They really trusted me, and that's the currency of my profession, really.

If people don't trust you, they're not going to let you in and listen to what they're saying to each other.

KARL (voice-over): The night Nixon resigned, August 19, 1974, newly minted President Gerald Ford asked Kennerly to be the official White House photographer.

KENNERLY: I thought there was a possibility he might offer me that job, and I wasn't sure I wanted it. We sat on the couch in his living room, and he was smoking his pipe. Mrs. Ford was there, and just the three of us, and he asked me if I would work for him, and I said, I would love to do it only if I report directly to you and I have total access to everything going on. He stopped smoking his pipe. I think I got to call my parents and tell them the president offered me a job, and I told him to shove it. And he started laughing, and he said, you don't want Air Force One on the weekends?

(LAUGHTER)

KARL (voice-over): Kennerly became a member of Ford's inner circle, traveling the country and the world alongside the president.

KENNERLY: We're looking at the seal, the great seal at the top of the Oval Office. He said, you know, all I ever wanted to be was speaker of the House, but we never were in the majority, and it just never happened. And he said, I've just been a good Republican my whole career. And then he kind of thought about that. He looked at me and he said, you know, I've never asked you, are you a Republican or a Democrat? And he said, don't answer that. And he didn't care.

KARL (voice-over): On Ford's last day in office, Kennerly took a photo of Betty Ford unlike any taken of any other first lady. Standing on the conference table in the Cabinet room.

KENNERLY: It was her idea. When we walked by the Cabinet Room, and she looked in, and I saw this mischievous gleam in her eye, which was common. And she said, you know, I've always wanted to dance on the Cabinet room table. And she took her shoes off. She hopped up there, struck a pose, and what she was really doing was planting a feminist flag right in the middle of this white male domain.

KARL (voice-over): In 1978, he was one of a handful of journalists who went to Guyana to investigate reports of a cult leader turned madman. A warning the images are disturbing.

You were there in Jonestown, the mass suicide, the cult.

KENNERLY: Murder. Mass murder.

KARL: Mass murder.

KENNERLY: Mass suicide. When we heard that Congressman Leo Ryan had been killed, we got a small plane to fly up to the area. It was really remote. Middle of nowhere.

KARL: In Guyana.

KENNERLY: And we thought that there were still people there who were like holding up the Guyanese army. But we didn't know.

KARL: You didn't know all these people had died.

KENNERLY: No. And as we got closer and closer, I saw from a distance these brightly colored clothes. And it looked like all these people around these structures.

KARL: Yes.

KENNERLY: I said, look at all those people. I mean, you know, they're not dead. As we got closer, we realized they're all dead. This was the biggest shock of my life ever. Then, we got on the ground, and even from the airstrip where the Congressman had been shot, it was 10 miles here. So we got -- a military helicopter took us in.

But I made this picture of --

KARL:  The Kool-Aid.

KENNERLY:  The Kool-Aid, which is, by the way, flavor aid, but doesn't have the same ring to it.

KARL:  Right.

KENNERLY:  But this was the poison vat they were drinking. There are dead bodies all around it. Jim Jones is actually in this picture behind the M and the E. It's the only story in my life that gave me nightmares.

I have to this date haven't had one nightmare about Vietnam. I mean, no one has ever seen anything like this since or, I don't even know, before. And I've seen my share of bodies, but not in a situation like that.

KARL (voice-over):  Year after year, Kennerly served as history's witness, especially in politics, behind closed doors with Democrats and Republicans alike. He's photographed every president since Lyndon B. Johnson.

He's the guy in the room where it happens. Case in point, the photo on the cover of his upcoming book.

KENNERLY:  George W. Bush was having his dad and the other formers in for lunch with Obama to give him their views on the presidency. It was a very nice thing to do. They were going to do it in the Rose Garden. It got canceled because of weather, moved it inside. And so they limited the coverage.

I was not on the list. So I have like Cheney's private number on his desk at the White House.

KARL:  Yeah.

KENNERLY:  And I called.

I called. I said, Dick, you still have any influence over there? He said, not much. What do you need? And I told him what happened. Five minutes later, I got a phone call from the press secretary. Oh, we wanted you in there.

No, of course, you should be in there. So when I'm in there, and I'm standing right in front of him, like 10 feet away, Bush is saying to Obama in this picture, at that moment, there's Kennerly, you know, Kennerly?

(LAUGH)

KENNERLY:  And Obama doesn't know me for really anything. I never met the guy. And -- but that was the moment.

KARL:  All right, David Kennerly, thank you very much.

KENNERLY:  You got it.

KARL:  "In The Room" -- it's available to preorder now and publishes on September 29th. Kennerly's work will also be on display at the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library beginning October 3rd for a three-month exhibition.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL:  That's all for today. Thank you for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and have a great day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)