'This Week' Transcript 9-13-26: Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Rep. Mike Lawler & Jacob Coxon

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, September 13, 2026 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

ANNOUNCER: “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC “THIS WEEK” ANCHOR (voice-over): A.I. doomsday.

VICTORIA DERBYSHIRE, BBC ANCHOR: Ten percent doesn't seem an unreasonable estimate that A.I. could kill all humans.

GEOFFREY HINTON, “GODFATHER OF AI”: Yes. Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The CEOs of Anthropic, OpenAI, and Elon Musk call for a slowdown in the development of artificial intelligence --

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONTH: We don't have months. We don't have years. We got to move now.

STEPHANOPOULOS: -- after a whistleblower's warning that the technology could kill us all by the end of the decade sends shockwaves around the world.

And --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I'm asking you to pretend that I'm on the ballot. I'm on the ballot.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The president takes center stage at the GOP convention with a dubious promise.

TRUMP: Five thousand dollars for every adult citizen in our country.

REP. ROBERT GARCIA, (D) CALIFORNIA: The dividend is not happening. As gas prices surge and the unpopular war drags on.

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER, (D) ILLINOIS: This bizarre Republican midterm convention here can't paper over the fact that Republicans have done nothing to earn your vote.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This morning, House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Republican Congressman Mike Lawler join us live.

And 9/11 hero --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The look on his face was one of shock, confusion, pain.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Twenty-five years after America's darkest day, Martha Raddatz has the powerful story of the man who ran into the fire to save a complete stranger.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's “This Week”.

Here now, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning and welcome to “This Week”, a week in which extreme worry about the existential risk of A.I. went mainstream.

It began with the resignation of A.I. researcher Jacob Coxon, who walked away from Anthropic, warning the industry is gambling with our lives developing a technology that could kill us all. Other A.I. insiders have been sounding the alarm for years, this time it broke through, rocking the Internet, sparking urgent conversations around kitchen tables, corporate boardrooms and the halls of Congress.

And just yesterday, the CEOs of two of the biggest A.I. companies, Dario Amodei of Anthropic and Sam Altman of OpenAI, agreed publicly that A.I. development must slow down.

The big question now, will that actually happen before it's too late?

Chief business correspondent Rebecca Jarvis starts us off.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REBECCA JARVIS, ABC NEWS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tech titan and Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei reacting Saturday after a former Anthropic employee's dire warning this week set off a wave of concern over artificial intelligence's rapid growth.

JACOB COXON, FORMER ANTHROPIC AND OPENAI RESEARCHER: People essentially are aware that the work they are currently doing, if we don't slow down, could lead to A.I. takeover by the end of the decade.

JARVIS (voice-over): Amodei responding to that possibility.

DARIO AMODEI, ANTHROPIC CEO & CO-FOUNDER: So instead of saying, you know, it's a 10 percent chance, that sounds like it's a roll of the dice -- I think it's much more illuminating to say, well, that forks into different paths. And if we take the right paths, then the chance of something going wrong is very low. If we take the wrong paths, then the chance of something going wrong could be -- could be even higher than that.

JARVIS: And in a stunning letter titled, “We Must Pace the Frontier”, Amodei writing that “over the last few months, I have become convinced that fully addressing the risks requires even more prudence” and “that we must slow the pace at which we improve the capabilities of A.I. models.”

With OpenAI chief Sam Altman posting in a response, “I agree with Dario that we need to pace the frontier,” committing to having independent evaluators with employee-like access is a great idea, and we will do the same.

In his letter, Amodei saying his fear stemmed from the pace at which A.I. has advanced drastically faster in recent months. Plus, that incident earlier this summer when OpenAI agents hacked A.I. startup Hugging Face. He also expressed concern that in six to 12 months, a swarm of bots could take over the entire Internet.

Hours before that letter, “The Wall Street Journal” reporting a previously unknown hack two months earlier, where OpenAI agents launched a cyber attack against a popular coding service called RubyGems. An OpenAI spokeswoman telling the Wall Street Journal they “continue to investigate as part of our broader review of agent activity during training and evaluation.”

Anthropic this week also releasing a harrowing report saying they stopped several possible incidents this year where scientists allegedly plotted to use its A.I. models to develop biological weapons, saying “biological misuse is one of the most serious risks of frontier A.I. models.” “Without the correct safeguards, such capabilities could have catastrophic consequences.”

The report also highlighting incidents of people using Anthropic's chatbot Claude in an effort to potentially develop software for weapons design, including firearms, missiles, armed drones, bombs and other munitions with cases identified originating from China, Russia and Yemen. In the report, Anthropic said they couldn't establish whether or not the searches were done for legitimate or nefarious purpose.

In another specific instance, Anthropic identified an Iranian threat actor using Claude to develop targeting recommendations against U.S. naval forces in the region. But Amodei expressing concerns over grinding A.I. advancements to a complete halt.

DARIO AMODEI, ANTHROPIC CEO AND CO-FOUNDER: If we go too slow, I still believe that the wrong people will be in charge of the technology. And you know, that again will bring the probability of things going wrong very high.

JARVIS (voice-over): It comes after a grave warning Tuesday from Jacob Coxon, a former OpenAI and Anthropic employee who quit his job as a researcher at Anthropic just months after he started. Coxon in a post on X, writing, "Neither company is acting responsibly. The people building A.I. earnestly believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade."

With Evan Hubinger, a safety researcher at Anthropic, responding, writing, "Coxon is correct. We really do earnestly believe A.I. could kill all humans. I personally think it is greater than 10 percent within the next decade."

The warnings breaking through in a way few have previously, drawing the attention of A-list celebrities including Sheryl Crow and Matt Damon, and politicians on both sides of the aisle.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): You don't have to be a genius to say, hey, stop that development.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have any concerns about A.I. leading to human extinction?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I don't have any. I have concerns that if we don't win A.I., we're going to be put in a very bad position.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks, Rebecca Jarvis, for that.

And we are joined now by the man who started this debate, Jacob Coxon.

Jacob, thank you for joining us this morning. Are you getting the kind of response you hoped for when you announced your resignation on Tuesday?

JACOB COXON, FORMER ANTHROPIC AND OPENAI RESEARCHER: So I wasn't actually hoping for any big response really. It was exceptionally surprising to see the level of engagement with the tweet. And I think it was really indicative of the moment being ripe for this sort of chat.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you make of your former boss Dario Amodei's essay yesterday, talking about slowing down the pace of development?

COXON: I think it's great. It's very exciting. And I think this is a substantial step towards what I was talking about, needing some sort of slowdown between the people building the different A.I.s, although the one thing that's maybe missing is in terms of the current proposal is more engagement with China.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And kind of -- what would that look like?

COXON: What does the potential --

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Engagement with China? Engagement with China. What needs to be done with China?

COXON: I really don't know the details of foreign policy as it were, but I do hope that the people in China who are looking at the same problems as we are, so they're trying to build the same technology, will come to the same conclusion that it has to be done in a measured manner, and it should be easy to cooperate on some sort of mutual slowing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What difference will this third-party monitoring, the independent auditors, that Mr. Amodei is talking about? What difference will that make inside the companies?

COXON: So I would guess it'll make it a lot easier to have -- so inside the companies, it'll slow the ability to produce these frontier models, probably. It'll also ensure that there's substantially more transparency into exactly what goes wrong if there is some sort of incident. And I think it will also allow for trust between the labs to a much greater extent if people can rely on verification from these trusted third parties.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And how do you respond to those who say this is a somewhat cynical marketing ploy that the leaders of OpenAI, the leaders of Anthropic, want to lock in their market advantage, slow development for everybody else?

COXON: So I think actually taking this sort of measure is actively harmful for the leading frontier labs. They're slowing themselves down more than they're slowing their competitors down. So if anything, this is burning an advantage in order to stay safe.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How widespread is the sentiment inside the companies that you expressed publicly on Tuesday? We're starting to hear more about it right now. When you were talking to your colleagues day in, day out, is this the kind of thing that was top of mind?

COXON: So it's definitely not top of mind day in, day out. Day and day out, if you're working on the tech, then you're sort of head down trying to do coding, programming. There's not enough time to be constantly thinking about the risks.

But definitely, I've noticed that in recent months, it comes up more and more often. So no matter where you are in the company, probably around a couple of times a week, I guess, there'll be some sort of conversation around the big risks of the technology.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What was the last straw for you? What made you think “I have to get out”?

COXON: So there actually wasn't a single last straw. It really was a kind of continuous process of realization that I was genuinely not happy with the way things were going and I needed to make like a significant change. So there were a few contributing incidents over months, but there was no like single catalyst that led to me quitting.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Which scenario worries you the most?

COXON: Honestly, I think the concept of building a super intelligence is -- well, it's been likened to summoning an alien species. So I think thinking about it in terms of an alien mind that we don't fully understand is -- is pretty terrifying, even without any concrete scenario.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You've had people like Senator Bernie Sanders call for a ban on this artificial superintelligence, but is that even possible?

COXON: I'm not sure. Again, I really don't know what could and couldn't be implemented. I think -- well, it's definitely physically possible to implement a ban on artificial superintelligence if there was cooperation between all the countries. Whether or not an actual ban is a good idea is like up for discussion. I certainly agree with the proposals for slowing down seem like a very sensible first step.

STEPHANOPOULOS: For everyone watching now, for everyone who might be as terrified as you've been at different times, what's the one thing you hope that everyone takes away from this debate and what kind of response you think would be most important right now?

COXON: I think probably the most important thing to take away is no matter what you're currently doing, A.I. is going to have probably a significant impact on your life. And it's pretty important to keep your eyes open about the direction things are heading and not necessarily leave it all up to the people that are building it because, you know, they want engagement. The people building the technology want to have conversations with people. And in fact, it's been -- one of the main sticking points over the last few years has been the inability to wake people up about the danger that they're creating.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's hope that has changed.

Jacob Coxon, thanks very much.

We have the latest now in the midterms, less than eight weeks away after that unconventional midterm convention where President Trump told his party to make the midterms a referendum on him -- very much in character, but a risky strategy given Trump's record low poll numbers.

Chief White House correspondent Mary Bruce was on the scene in Dallas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWD: USA! USA!

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the midterms just 51 days away, both parties barreling towards November's high-stakes elections.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I'm asking you to pretend that I'm on the ballot. I'm on the ballot.

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER, (D) ILLINOIS: Donald Trump is hoping that a flashy primetime event will make you forget that -- well, his trade war is killing costs for families at the grocery store.

BRUCE (voice-over): In Dallas this week, Republicans hosting their first ever midterm convention, with little reference to the war in Iran or its ripple effects on the economy.

TRUMP: This has been the most successful two years, financially and every other way in the history of the presidency.

BRUCE (voice-over): By the end of the week, diesel hitting an all-time high, $6.12 a gallon, affecting the cost of just about everything you buy. The price of gasoline also rising, hitting $4 30 cents per gallon, the highest since the end of May.

And late Friday, new concern about prices going up even further. Saudi Arabia shutting down a pipeline that bypasses the Strait of Hormuz after repeated attacks by the Houthis.

Trump facing near record low approval ratings and well aware the cost of living is a top issue for voters, making an unprecedented offer -- to pay every American $5,000 if Republicans win both chambers of Congress.

TRUMP: Five thousand dollars for every adult citizen in our country.

BRUCE (voice-over): He did not say how he would come up with the roughly $1.3 trillion he'd need to pay every American adult, or how that would even work.

Democrats say that the president's pitch is nothing more than a stunt.

REP. ROBERT GARCIA, (D) CALIFORNIA: The dividend is not happening. He promised a dividend on tariffs. That didn't happen. He promised a dividend on DOGE. That didn't happen.

BRUCE (voice-over): Some Republicans pushing back on the idea.

Maine Senator Susan Collins calling it extraordinarily costly, adding, tax and spending decisions should not appear to be tied to election results.

Senate Majority Leader John Thune sounding skeptical.

DANA BASH, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Would you have enough votes to pass a $5,000 dividend to every American?

SEN. JOHN THUNE, (R) SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Well, that's a good question, Dana, and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Mary Bruce for that. We're joined now by the House Democratic Leader, Hakeem Jeffries. Mr. Leader, thank you for coming in this morning.

I want to talk about the convention in a second, but let's start with A.I. and these remarkable warnings we're getting this week. I know you met with President Obama and talked about this issue earlier this week. What will Dem -- what do Democrats think need to be done right now?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES, (D-NY) HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Well, we certainly need to begin to act urgently to address the challenges that exist. And unfortunately, Republicans have abandoned their responsibility.

So, under Speaker Mike Johnson, he killed a bipartisan task force this Congress that was prepared to do the serious work necessary to try to erect the guardrails to protect the health, the safety, the well-being of the American people.

So what we did as Democrats was to begin last December a commission on artificial intelligence and innovation economy so we could evaluate the steps that needed to be done and then present an aggressive framework which we are in the process of doing, so that Congress can act on behalf of the American people.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But do we even have time for that? You've got some of your colleagues, like Representative Ro Khanna and other Democrats saying Congress should come back in right now, take urgent action right now. Don't go back for the midterm elections until they've done something.

JEFFRIES: I agree with my colleagues that we actually need to act urgently. And unfortunately, House Republicans have effectively canceled the last two weeks of the legislative session scheduled for this month, which is something that they've repeatedly done.

We should take decisive action now so that we can slow down, as the CEOs have recently acknowledged, slow down the pace of development in order to protect the American people and ensure that A.I. is proceeding safely.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What is decisive action? Senator Bernie Sanders, as I said, has called for a ban on artificial superintelligence. Your colleague Ted Lieu of California says there needs to be a kill switch inside the companies. Are you for those?

JEFFRIES: Well, we'll have that conversation this week upon our return. We're going to meet as a caucus on Tuesday morning, and a high priority will be action on artificial intelligence.

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, let's turn to the midterm convention, the president's $5,000 promise. If Democrats take control next year, is that dead on arrival?

JEFFRIES: Well, listen, it wasn't a serious proposal that was presented by Donald Trump. He's broken every promise that he's presented. Donald Trump promised to actually lower costs on day one. Costs haven't gone down. They've gone up.

Donald Trump promised not to start endless wars in the Middle East, but to stop them, and then turned around and did the exact opposite in Iran.

Donald Trump even promised to love and cherish Medicaid and then enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history.

As Democrats, we're going to focus on aggressively driving down the high cost of living and fighting for an affordable America, because the cost of living in this country is way too high. Republicans have made the situation worse. Democrats are going to act aggressively.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Democrats aren't much more popular than Republicans right now. And the president and his allies at the convention this week tried to argue that you're the party of communism. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Remember during the last State of the Union, I said, our country will never be a socialist country. I was right. It's going to be a communist country if they would.

(LAUGH)

You know what they did? They dropped socialism. They went right for the big one. And all I'm asking in this election is that you stand with me. Together, we will defeat communism in America once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Worried that attack might cut?

JEFFRIES: Not at all. One thing that Donald Trump did say at the midterm convention that was interesting is to pretend as if he's on the ballot. Mr. President, we don't have to pretend. You are actually on the ballot. Your failed economy is on the ballot. The cost of living crisis is on the ballot.

The fact that you've gotten us involved in a reckless and costly war of choice in the Middle East that has skyrocketed gas prices, that's on the ballot. Ripping health care away from millions of Americans is on the ballot.

The Trump tariffs, which have increased costs on everyday Americans by thousands of dollars per year on the ballot. Donald Trump is absolutely on the ballot in November and the American people are going to send a message loudly and clearly on Election Day that even Donald Trump cannot ignore.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The internet activist, Hasan Piker was also front and center at this convention in Dallas this week, particularly his comment that America deserved 9/11. How should Democrats handle him?

JEFFRIES: Well, I've been very clear in terms of my denunciation of him and the aggressive, in some cases, anti-semitic remarks that he's issued, as have other Democratic candidates all across the country.

Now, what's interesting is in terms of who's going to be on the ballot, George, in November, we've got extraordinary candidates. We've got combat veterans like Cait Conley and Rebecca Bennett. We've got doctors. We've got nurses. We have engineers. We have farmers. We have union leaders. We've got firefighters. We got police officers. We have a hostage negotiator. We have a Tejano music superstar in the Rio Grande Valley and even a smoke jumper in Montana.

These are extraordinary candidates. Their names will appear on the ballot. They've got incredible patriotic life experiences and their commitment to public service is going to speak for itself.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You've taken some heat from progressives in the party, including from many who align with the Democratic Socialists. Are you confident that you'll actually be speaker if the Democrats win?

JEFFRIES: Well, we're focused right now on taking back control of the House of Representatives. That is the only mission that's important, so we can lower the high cost of living, lower the cost of gas, lower the cost of groceries, lower the cost of housing, certainly fight to make health care affordable for every single American, and combat the unprecedented corruption that's been unleashed on the American people, and beginning on day one, hold the crooks accountable.

We've made clear, George, that if someone has been screwing over the American people, shortchanging the American people, or stealing from the American people, they're going to be held accountable under a Democratic majority.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said hold the crooks accountable. Does that mean that the House is going to be pursuing impeachment proceedings on day one?

JEFFRIES: No, we haven't ruled anything in and we haven't ruled anything out in terms of impeachment. As it relates to accountability, what we're going to do, led by Jamie Raskin and House Committee Democrats on the Judiciary Committee, as well as House Democrats on the Oversight Committee led by Robert Garcia, both of them are doing a tremendous job, we've got to follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the Constitution, and then let the chips fall where they may, in the best interests of the American people, so that the House, once again, can function like a separate and co-equal branch of government and a check and balance on an out-of-control executive branch.

STEPHANOPOULOS: On that theme, a lot of Democrats had raised questions about the activities, the private business activities of Jared Kushner. Was it a mistake for you to meet with him?

JEFFRIES: No, listen, I'm of the view that if we're going to be committed to actually solving problems on behalf of the American people, including, by the way, passing the Housing affordability bill in this Congress that became law as a result of bipartisan work led by Maxine Waters in the House and Elizabeth Warren in the Senate, there are going to be times that you have to speak with people on the other side of the aisle, even individuals who you strongly disagree with on the overwhelming majority of issues.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And if the number one issue is the cost of living right now, what do Democrats do on day one about that?

JEFFRIES: Well, listen, there's a variety of different things that we're going to have to do. We have to end the Trump tariffs because we know the Trump tariffs have increased costs on everyday Americans by thousands of dollars per year. We've got to stop this reckless and costly war of choice in Iran, which has skyrocketed gas prices to the highest levels, for instance, on Labor Day ever seen in the United States of America.

We've certainly got to fix our broken health care system and do the type of things like restoring the Affordable Care Act tax credits, which have increased costs on everyday Americans by thousands of dollars per year, in some cases up to $1,000 per month in ways that are unaffordable for people who can no longer be able to go see a doctor when they need one.

These are some of the things that I think we can begin to do, but it's going to have to be a bold, aggressive legislative effort that we sustain, not just for the first 100 days, but for the first year and the entirety of the Congress.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It's almost certainly going to have to take some cooperation from President Trump. He went on FOX News this week and said he thinks he can make deals with you. Do you see areas where cooperation is possible?

JEFFRIES: Well, I think, look, we've said from the very beginning of this Congress, if the other side of the aisle is willing to find the common ground necessary to decisively address the fact that everyday Americans are drowning in this Republican economy, working hard, playing by the rules, can't thrive and can barely survive, then we're committed to actually trying to find that common ground, as we just recently did with the housing affordability bill that is now law.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Hakeem Jeffries, thanks for your time this morning.

JEFFRIES: Thanks, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican response from one of its most vulnerable House members when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Please raise your right hand. I pledge --

AUDIENCE: I pledge --

TRUMP: -- to the greatest president in the history of the United States --

AUDIENCE: -- to the greatest president in the history of the United States --

TRUMP: -- that loves us so much he can't even breathe.

AUDIENCE: -- that loves us so much he can't even breathe.

TRUMP: That I will go out with my family, my friends, I'll do it anyway. I don't care if I'm registered or not, I'm going to try and cheat like hell like they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC “THIS WEEK” ANCHOR: President Trump at the midterm convention this week.

We're joined now by Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York.

Congressman, thanks for joining us this morning.

Do you pledge your allegiance to Donald Trump?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: I pledge my allegiance to my constituents, which I always have. It's why I've been rated among the most bipartisan and effective members of Congress. I've been praised by presidents of both parties, including Joe Biden and Donald Trump, because I work to get things done.

You know, my best friend in Congress is a Democrat, Josh Gottheimer, and we work tirelessly on issues that matter to our constituents and the American people, including A.I., where we are leading on Stop Rogue A.I. Agents Act and the Chat Act to protect children and require age verification.

And, you know, it's funny, Hakeem Jeffries brought up the housing bill. I was the lead on that. Six of my bills were signed into law under that bipartisan housing package which will actually increase supply, cut red tape, increase access to capital, and reduce overall costs.

You know, Hakeem spent a lot of time in the last segment railing about Republicans. Both of us are from New York. Democrats control everything in New York, and yet we have the highest tax burden, the worst business climate. We lead the nation in out-migration.

Utility costs are up 58 percent in New York because they shut down nuclear power, blocked natural gas, banned pipelines.

People are leaving in droves. I agree there's an affordability crisis. And there's a lot we have to do as a country, whether it is permitting reform on the national stage, whether it is tackling our broken health care system.

You know, since Obamacare took effect, premiums are up 150 percent. Something's obviously not working.

So we have to put the rhetoric aside, the nonsense aside, and actually focus on addressing the issues facing the American people on housing, on health care, on --

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Jeffries -- Jeffries --

LAWLER: That's been my focus as a member of Congress.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he also mentioned the Medicaid cuts that you voted for when you voted for the president's tax and spending bill last year.

(CROSSTALK)

LAWLER: Well, let’s -- let's talk about that, yeah.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah, it's going to -- that it's going to hurt your constituents, throw people off health care.

LAWLER: No, first of all, under the Biden administration, Medicaid doubled because they eased the requirements for access. And the fact is what we did was put in place common sense reforms to slow the rate of growth.

We put in eligibility verification, speeding it up twice a year, citizenship verification to make sure illegals like in the state of New York are not collecting Medicaid benefits, work requirements for able bodied adults without dependent children. That's something Bill Clinton and Democrats championed in the ‘90s. And by the way, Democrats voted for under Joe Biden when we increased work requirements on SNAP. Democrats voted for it just two years ago.

Even with all of the common sense reforms, George, Medicaid is still growing by 25 percent. We are protecting the Medicaid system for the disabled, for our seniors, for our single mothers, for children, precisely who the system was intended to support.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you support this $5,000 dividend that the president talked about this weekend? If so, why haven't Republicans already passed it?

LAWLER: You know, George, I support putting money back in the pockets of hard-working Americans, which is why we passed the single largest tax cut in American history. It's why I fought to lift the cap on SALT from $10,000 to $40,000, standing up to President Trump on that issue, delivering the largest tax cut for my constituents, putting more than $4,000 back in their pockets.

So whether you talk about tax cuts, whether you talk about dividends, or whether you talk about stimulus --

STEPHANOPOULOS: But I asked you about the president's $5,000 dividend. Do you support that or not? It's a yes-or-no question.

(CROSSTALK)

LAWLER: Hold on. Whether you talk about -- I understand. Whether you -- no, George, it's not a yes-or-no. Here's the answer. Whether you call it a tax cut, a stimulus, which is what the Biden administration did, and you said that was the greatest anti-poverty program since the New Deal when Biden passed the stimulus check.

So obviously, you don't have a problem when they're handing money back to the American people through a stimulus check. Or you call it a dividend. The question is, how do you pay for it? How do you be able to pass the legislation to put more money back in the pockets of hard-working Americans? That's the objective.

We should all be wanting to do that, to put the issue of affordability front and center and ease the burden on Americans. We saw a cumulative inflation under Joe Biden of 21 percent. We are still clawing our way through it. It is a challenge. I don't think anybody would dispute that.

But we have made progress. The economy is growing. Over a million private sector jobs have been created over the last year and a half. The size and scope of the federal government is shrinking after the Biden administration exploded it, increasing federal spending by $5 trillion.

So there's more to do, George, but whether you call it a stimulus check or a dividend, the question is, how do you pay for it? That's my focus. We have a $40 trillion debt and we have to be serious about tackling that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you convinced that President Trump's going to accept the results of these elections? And will you and your fellow colleagues pledge to follow through and certify the winners who are certified by local officials?

LAWLER: I have always accepted the results of the election. I always will. As I said previously, Joe Biden won in 2020 and Donald Trump won in 2024. The American people make the ultimate determination of our elections. I will always support the outcome of that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman, thanks for your time this morning.

Roundtable is up next. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Back with the Roundtable joined by former New Jersey governor Chris Christie, former DNC chair Donna Brazile, "National Review" editor Ramesh Ponnuru and Vox.com editorial director, Astead Herndon.

And I want to start with A.I., Chris. I wonder if we're going to look back at this week when it finally did seem to hit critical mass, this debate about A.I., and realize that A.I. and dealing with A.I. is really the number one public policy issue of our time.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It is, George. And look, when the developers are losing control and sounding the alarms, that's a problem, right? Because these guys have been pedal to the metal, you know, with blinders on for a long time. And I think there needs to be a focus on the regulations to require technical solutions to these problems. It's not a governmental fix.

This is the government telling technology you need to come to us with a fix that we find to be satisfactory. And the White House has been completely disengaged from this. And quite frankly, so is Congress. And so I hope they all wake up because, you know, I don't want to see them singing on the front steps of the Capitol after there's been a tragedy if they're going to do nothing at all about trying to fix it, when people are sounding the alarms now.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We did hear from President Obama this week, at least at these fundraisers held in Manhattan with Hakeem Jeffries. And I've been thinking about this. I've been thinking back to my time in the White House, looking back at all those former presidents who were at the 9/11 memorial services on Friday. And I have to imagine that any one of them, Republican or Democrat, by this point, would have gone to the country, Oval Office address saying, this is what needs to be done.

DONNA BRAZILE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I thought earlier last year when President Trump announced a task force inside the White House that the White House would take the lead. But what we're seeing right now is state leaders have taken the lead all over the country. Over 109 laws have passed across the country. Gavin Newsom has to make a big decision over the next couple of days.

Plus, there are 29 states that have imposed some kind of moratorium or some restrictions on building these data centers. If Congress cannot figure out guardrails, the administration is basically saying we're competing against China. So let's go straight ahead. But meanwhile, the insiders, George, what scares me is that it says they're going to kill us within the next decade. Well, is that three and a half years away? So we're on a clock and no one is paying attention.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I mean, Ramesh, one of the scary things is they don't really even know how bad the problem is, even inside the companies.

But we've never seen anything like this, Ramesh. We have the leaders of the companies saying, please stop us from doing what we're doing.

BRAZILE: Yeah.

RAMESH PONNURU, NATIONAL REVIEW EDITOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right. And I think it would be reckless to disregard those warnings.

But there's also the problem if they're not on top of it, then educated members of the public aren't really on top of it.

And then there's members of Congress and members of the administration on the outer circle, and they are totally unprepared for this debate. They're unprepared for the debate being as multifaceted as it is, because people are concerned about jobs. But they're also concerned about these existential risks. They're concerned about the effects on their children.

Congressman Lawler talked about regulating how A.I. chat bots talk to kids. That's a consensus issue. And yet Congress hasn't been able to act even on that.

ASTEAD HERNDON, VOX EDITOR DIRECTOR & “AMERICA ACTUALLY” PODCAST HOST: That, to me, is the really important part. We're seeing both an elite and grassroots consensus at this point. You have the CEOs from A.I. companies over the last week.

But on the campaign trail, we hear mass calls for Congress to step in, for the president to focus on them. And as the former governor said, the president's out to lunch on this. And I think the public knows that.

And so that's why we're seeing this kind of increased frustration. It's because, you know, I interviewed Congressman Jim Clyburn over the summer, and he told me he had not heard of ChatGP and T until the week before.

And so I think that speaks to the reasons why Congress feels so distant from this issue, because they are.

STEPHANOPOULOS: If they're out there on the campaign trail now, they're not going to feel distant from it. This is a real grassroots rebellion going on.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, you can feel it. You can feel it. This is a -- this is a parents at their kids' soccer games issue, in the same way it's an issue inside universities and in other places in the tech world.

And so, look, you know, this is where intellectual curiosity matters, George. And one of the things that that you just mentioned about the former presidents, you know, I would say that Bush and Clinton and Obama were all very intellectually curious presidents. And the lack of intellectual curiosity right now inside the White House really hurts it because this is a tough issue. And you got to take the time to dig in and read and learn and bring experts in.

This is hard work. This is the hard work of the presidency. This isn't a rally in Dallas.

This is hard work. And we need -- if not the president, he's not going to do it. Some of the leaders of Congress have to.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: Well --

PONNURU: You know, this is a presidency in the White House that have been so economically interventionist in very foolish ways, area after area. But this one place where actually some regulation could be useful is where they're taking a pure free market line that I think is both irresponsible and not politically sustainable.

BRAZILE: But China, you know, Mr. Xi is coming here on September 24th. The president has an opportunity to start talking about guardrails so that the United States don't feel like they're going to be -- I don't know -- slowed down.

This is a great opportunity for the president to, I guess, study up and get ready for an important conversation.

China is already thinking about guardrails. We're not thinking about it because we don't want to be the country that slows down development when A.I. is about economic growth. It's about jobs. And of course, it's about national security.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about the midterms now.

Astead, when we saw Hakeem Jeffries here, he seemed pretty happy with the fact that President Trump wanted to make himself --

HERNDON: Yeah.

STEPHANOPOULOS: -- the center of this election right now.

But I wonder if even if it's unconventional, even though the president's approval ratings are in the low 30s, that it might be a strategy born of necessity because Republicans can't run away from Donald Trump anyway.

HERNDON: It’s -- it's definitely a strategy of necessity because Donald Trump has Republicans in the pickle. He is both their biggest turnout driver. He's also the Democrats biggest turnout driver.

And so putting him front and center doesn't surprise me that Hakeem Jeffries thinks that's something that serves the Democratic Party. But Donald Trump's approval rating is slipping because folks have turned. He's lost credibility on his signature issue, economic handling.

And so, people understand that prices have gone up, that they understand that the Iran war has led to rise in oil prices. That kind of causational relationship is not hard for the regular voter to get. And so they have flipped on Donald Trump.

And that's where I think his unpopularity is really driving. Five thousand dollar dividend doesn't matter if you don't have credibility that people think you're going to follow through on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You watch President Trump's social media feed, you hear him speak. You wonder if those poll numbers are even being given to him.

CHRISTIE: Well, and if they are, he doesn't believe them anyway.

Look, I think there's a difference with what you just said, George. I don't think it is a necessity that they'd be front and center.

You just had Mike Lawler. No matter what Mike says, and I know him well, you think he wants Donald Trump front and center in that suburban New York district? No shot he wants it. No chance.

He's doing what he needs to do to continue to be funded right now. But he doesn't want Donald Trump coming to his district.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's what I mean by a strategy born of necessity. They can't help it.

CHRISTIE: Well, they -- but the president could if he wanted to.

PONNURU: Right.

CHRISTIE: And if you listen to these numbers, the Quinnipiac poll came out this week. The generic ballot right now is plus 23 D.

HERNDON: Yeah.

CHRISTIE: Plus 23. In 2018, it was plus 11 Democrat. In 22, it was plus nine Republican.

Donald Trump's numbers are 26 points underwater. He's 33 points, as you pointed out, Ramesh, underwater on the economy, which is a new low for him. And 36 points underwater on Iran.

This is a guy who should go and focus on A.I. in the White House, come up with some solutions that could make a Rose Garden-type strategy work for them. They're never going to be able to get rid of the connection, but he doesn't need to be front and center.

But I fear for my party that his ego is going to prevent that. Now, let's give you one other example, George, Iowa. Right now in Iowa, Donald Trump is 16 points underwater, in Iowa. And they are, the Democratic gubernatorial candidate is plus eight, and the Democratic Senate candidate is plus four.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Right.

CHRISTIE: This is Iowa, and there it's not only prices, but also tariffs that are killing them.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But everybody thought the map was going to work against the Democrats, particularly the Senate map, but it does seem to be moving in their direction right now.

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Look, there's no question, George. In May, when we were talking, we talked about North Carolina, we talked about Maine, we talked about Ohio, and we talked about Georgia. And now we're talking about Alaska. We're talking about Kansas.

I mean, what's the matter with Kansas? They don't like Mr. Marshall. They don't like the fact that he's not speaking out against the tariff. He's not standing up for the ranchers and the farmers. We're talking about more states in play in the United States Senate than we did back in the spring.

And for Hakeem Jeffries, for what it's worth, he now has at least 12 more competitive districts to focus on. So, Donald Trump wants to make it all about him. We say, bring it on.

RAMESH PONNURU, NATIONAL REVIEW EDITOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: There are any number of things that President Trump could do to improve Republican chances this fall. Backing off on these trade wars, not launching a new one against Canada would help. Talking about affordability and the cost of living as something he's working on and not as a hoax, that would help.

Talking about issues other than renovating plans in Washington, D.C., would help. The problem is he's not willing to do any of those things. All of those things would help a lot more than this dividend check, which is obviously a gimmick and which is, frankly, worth the paper (ph) that it's printed on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You mentioned the tariffs, Chris. When you look at two of the Senate seats right now, Maine and Michigan, overwhelming impact.

CHRISTIE: Huge. The Canadian fight is a fight that Mike Rogers and Susan Collins want nothing to do with. And broader on tariffs, Donna mentioned Kansas. I mean, the president of the United States is minus three right now in Kansas.

I mean, look, sometimes, as you know, George, in politics, the atmosphere overwhelms the candidates. And if Roger Marshall is only plus five in Kansas, that means the atmosphere is starting to overwhelm the quality of the candidate, the record of the candidate, and the disposition of those people because they voted for something in Donald Trump they thought they were going to get, and now they're not getting it.

ASTEAD HERNDON, VOX EDITORIAL DIRECTOR & 'AMERICA ACTUALLY' PODCAST HOST: I would just say this is why Donald Trump was pushing so hard for redistricting earlier in this year. Republicans are trying to insulate themselves from running on Donald Trump's second term and the backlash that that has produced from the public.

Because that effort has failed, you now see a kind of mashed-up strategy where they cannot really run on defending what has come from this White House. They want to make this a referendum on Democrats' extremism. That's not where the public is. They understand this is a reaction to Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: Trump's tariffs have been wiped out all of the dividends that any American could have received from his tax cuts. It has just wiped it out.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's going to have to be the last word. Thank you all very much.

Up next is the nation's worst 25 years since September 11th attacks. Martha Raddatz brings us a remarkable story of heroism and two men bonded by tragedy at the Pentagon.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: That is Martha Raddatz with a special reunion on Friday, on the 25th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Navy Lieutenant Kevin Schaffer was badly injured when American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. Army Sergeant 1st Class Steve Workman saved his life and he shared his story with Martha.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For retired Army Sergeant 1st Class Steve Workman and his wife, Angie. September 11th brings painful memories.

These anniversaries have to be tough for both of you.

ANGIE WORKMAN, STEVE WORKMAN'S WIFE: They are. They are very hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my god.

RADDATZ (voice-over): That was 9:03 a.m.. Shock, disbelief.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so terrible.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Fear spreading through Workman's Pentagon office as they tracked the tragedy in New York. But not for a minute did Workman think the Pentagon would be hit.

SGT. 1ST CLASS STEVE WORKMAN, U.S. ARMY (RET), SURVIVED 9/11 PENTAGON ATTACK: I didn't think, you know that whatever happened, this is a fortress.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Then 34 minutes later, at 9:37 a.m., American Airlines Flight 77 tore through that fortress.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Our belief at the moment is that an aircraft has crashed into either the courtyard itself or into that particular side of the building.

S. WORKMAN: It rattled the office space that we were in.

RADDATZ: So, Steve, everybody else is leaving. You tell them to evacuate.

S. WORKMAN: Yes, ma'am. Then so they --

RADDATZ: But you're going in?

S. WORKMAN: Yes.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Smoke poured from what was left of the Navy Command Center. Fighting through the darkness and heavy smoke, Steve began searching for anyone who still might be alive.

S. WORKMAN: I'd stop and I would yell. I came across this giant hole in the wall. That's where I found Kevin.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Doused in jet fuel and severely burned, Steve knew the young officer needed emergency care immediately.

S. WORKMAN: He was sitting right there, and he was just still smoldering. His uniform seemed to be burnt to his body.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Kevin Schaffer made a plea Workman would never forget.

S. WORKMAN: The look on his face was one of shock, confusion, pain. And when he looked in my eyes and said, please don't let me die, I -- I knew I couldn't.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Steve found a janitor with a maintenance cart and cleared a pathway, brick by brick, wheeling Kevin out of the darkness.

S. WORKMAN: When I saw the first ambulance pull up, I said, that's us.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Steve commandeered the ambulance and headed for Walter Reed Hospital through the congested streets of Washington with Kevin Schaffer wailing in pain.

S. WORKMAN: As we were backing in the emergency department, I think there must have been 100 people out there. They grabbed him immediately and started going to the left, and I could -- I could hear him yelling, stop, stop. And then, then he started saying -- calling my name, saying Steve, Steve. So I ran over there. He looked at me and said, what's your last name? So I was just like, it's Workman. It's Steve Workman, Kev. You're here at the hospital. You're going to be fine. They're going to take care of you.

RADDATZ (voice-over): While Steve headed back to the Pentagon, his wife was in a panic, trying to calm her two sons, but losing hope that Steve had survived the attack. She was watching on television.

A. WORKMAN: The thing that really was hitting me was he would call me if he was OK.

RADDATZ: You finally borrowed a cell phone, and when you got that, it was hours later.

A. WORKMAN: I was so frantic in those moments. I didn't know it was him. I didn't realize it was him on the phone for a few seconds. I just didn't recognize his voice. Nothing.

RADDATZ: You thought he might have been gone?

A. WORKMAN: I did. I thought -- I thought he was gone and it was just, the weight of hearing that -- hearing his voice and the weight. It just was so overwhelming. And then I realized it was him, and I just -- I just broke down and he said, I can't talk but you have to know I'm OK. And then he hung up.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Back at the hospital with his wife, Blanca, soon at his side, Kevin was in the fight of his life. Nearly half of the then 29-year-old's body was deeply burned to the bone in some places. His skin and lungs charred from fire and jet fuel. The pain all-consuming. Doctors were not sure if he'd survive.

SGT. 1ST CLASS STEVE WORKMAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.), SURVIVED 9/11 PENTAGON ATTACK: They were pulling jet fuel out of his body, out of his lungs and it was just as black as tar and had a device above his head where they were collecting it.

RADDATZ (voice-over): But Steve never stopped going. Day after painful day, he was there.

S. WORKMAN: I told him he was going to survive and I needed him to do that. And so I would tell him all the time, fight, fight hard, don't give up.

RADDATZ (voice-over): It took months but Kevin was finally released from the hospital to continue his recovery at home. Six months later, Kevin was awarded a Purple Heart. Steve receiving the Soldier's Medal, the highest award of valor in peace time.

Steve and Kevin remain closer than ever, sharing a bond few can understand.

S. WORKMAN: To watch Kevin, to manage -- to monitor his growth as he is, you know, fully recovered and watching him become a dad and a family man and a businessman, I'm proud. I'm proud of him. He's, you know -- he's my little brother and he's doing very well.

RADDATZ (voice-over): The two had much to talk about during this reunion -- Steve's growing family, the seven grandkids, and Steve wanted to know the latest about Kevin's three kids. The oldest boy, Steven, named in honor of the man who rescued his father.

For "This Week," I'm Martha Raddatz.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Martha for that. We'll be right back.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and I'll see you tomorrow on GMA.

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