'This Week' Transcript 9-14-25: Gov. Spencer Cox, Gov. Jared Polis, Sen. John Curtis & Rep. Michael McCaul

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, September 14, 2025 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: The horrific murder of Charlie Kirk has left many in shock and mourning. Is this a watershed moment for the nation?

“THIS WEEK” starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Charlie Kirk was a great person, a great man.

ERIKA KIRK, CHARLIE KIRK’S WIFE: The movement my husband built will not die.

RADDATZ: The young conservative activist gunned down as the nation confronts an escalating crisis of political violence.

GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): At some point, we have to find an off-ramp, or it's going to get much, much worse.

RADDATZ: The 22-year-old suspect in custody. President Trump quick to place blame.

TRUMP: The radicals on the left are the problem. And they’re vicious and they’re horrible.

RADDATZ: This morning, Matt Gutman in Utah with the latest on the investigation. We’ll speak with Utah Governor Spencer Cox after his powerful call for the country to choose a different path. And Utah Senator John Curtis and Colorado Governor Jared Polis join us.

Plus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've grown up really looking up to Charlie Kirk. I've been in so many debates trying to imitate him.

RADDATZ: I sit down with conservative college students reflecting on Charlie Kirk's legacy and how they move forward.

And, high stakes brinksmanship.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether intentional or not, it is dangerous and unacceptable.

RADDATZ: Russian drones violate Poland's airspace. NATO steps up its defenses. But the president plays it down.

TRUMP: It could have been a mistake. It could have been a mistake.

RADDATZ: I’ll speak with Texas Congressman Michael McCaul about the growing tensions and the fallout from Israel's audacious strikes against Hamas inside Qatar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News it’s "THIS WEEK." Here now, Martha Raddatz.

RADDATZ: Good morning. Welcome to “THIS WEEK.”

It was a truly horrific week for this country, with 31-year-old conservative activist Charlie Kirk shot and killed by a gunman's bullet in front of 3,000 people on a Utah college campus as Kirk engaged in the political debate and discussion that was his trademark.

We have new information this morning according to a report about what the suspected shooter was allegedly saying and doing in the hours after Kirk's death.

Kirk's killing is just the latest in a wave of political violence, from the assassination attempts on Donald Trump, to this summer's targeted killings of a Minnesota state lawmaker and her husband.

In powerful remarks Friday, Utah Governor Spencer Cox called Kirk's assassination a watershed moment, a moment where the nation can either go deeper down the path of polarization or choose to take an off-ramp to a different course for this country.

This morning, we’ll talk about this perilous moment and what comes next for the nation.

But we begin with ABC's Matt Gutman in Utah for the latest on the investigation and what we know about the 22-year-old man accused of Charlie Kirk's murder.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT GUTMAN, CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This morning, "The New York Times" is reporting that in the hours after Charlie Kirk's murder, his alleged gunman, Tyler Robinson, was messaged in a group chat by an acquaintance jokingly questioning where he was. Suggesting he resembled the man police were looking for.

According to “The Times,” Robinson responded that his “doppelganger” was trying to “get me in trouble,” while making other jokes about the manhunt. Including saying he was “actually Charlie Kirk.”

ABC News has not independently verified those messages.

Authorities announcing the arrest of 22-year-old Tyler Robinson on Friday.

GOV. SPENCER COX, (R-UT): Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

We got him.

GUTMAN (voice over): But until his capture, the suspect had been an unknown man in grainy surveillance images. Images, authorities say, were recognized by the suspect's own father.

COX: A family member of Tyler Robinson reached out to a family friend who contacted the Washington County Sheriff's Office with information that Robinson had confessed to them or implied that he had committed the incident.

GUTMAN (voice over): Authorities tell ABC News hundreds of investigators stitched the alleged gunman’s path from the moment he drove on to campus at 8:29 a.m. on Wednesday. TMZ obtaining this video appearing to match the description of the shooter who police say appears to walk with a stiff right leg, and that his ability to bend his right leg appears to be restricted.

Law enforcement sources tell us investigators believe Robinson was hiding his long gun under his clothing. And at some point, authorities say, he changed into the outfit seen in photos released during the manhunt and climbed up a campus stairwell to a roof at about 11:50 a.m. And then he’s seen dressed in a black cap, sunglasses and a black shirt emblazoned with an American flag and an eagle.

And as Charlie Kirk fired up the crowd tossing hats, authorities say the suspect crouched and waited.

At 12:22 p.m., they say Robinson sprang, no longer limping, into position on the roof, then laid down in a sniper position about 175 yards from the stage. One minute later, Charlie Kirk was answering a question about gun violence, police say the suspect fired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last ten years?

CHARLIE KIRK: Counting or not counting gang violence?

GUTMAN (voice over): As the crowd ducked in panic, cameras capturing this image of that shadowy figure on the roof. Police say this video then shows Robinson scampering across, dropping down to the ground, and jogging off.

GUTMAN: And authorities say that that suspect crossed the street from campus, just over there, walked up this drive into this wooded area. And somewhere around here, he stashed that rifle, wrapped in a dark towel. Those cartridges still inside.

GUTMAN (voice over): As the investigation unfolds, a portrait of Robinson beginning to emerge. Social media shows members of his family included hunters, people very familiar and comfortable with firearms. Robinson had no military experience, but sources tell ABC News, they believe he was proficient with firearms.

BEAU MASON, UTAH DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSIONER: About 175 yards from the podium from -- to the shooting location.

GUTMAN: One hundred and seventy-five yards. And would you have to be a pretty proficient marksman to be able to make it given those conditions?

MASON: Given the environment, that type of shot is -- is not easy. It's not what we would call a super long distance. But in that environment, that -- that is a pretty precision shot to pull off.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUTMAN (on camera): And, Martha, on Friday before that "New York Times" report, Discord, the app where these messages were reportedly said, put out a statement saying that they had identified a Discord account associated with the suspect but have found no evidence that the suspect planned this incident or promoted violence on Discord.

As for Tyler Robinson, he is now an inmate at the Utah County Jail. The D.A. says they plan to bring formal murder charges against him on Tuesday. He could also face federal murder charges. And Governor Spencer Cox has also said that they will try to seek the death penalty in this case.

Martha.

RADDATZ: Our thanks to Matt Gutman.

I'm joined now by Utah Governor Spencer Cox, who has received widespread praise for his response to the shooting this week.

Governor, it has been a horrific week. We thank you for your time.

I know you heard that report by Matt Gutman and this latest reporting in “The New York Times” that some of the suspect’s acquaintances were allegedly talking to him online and joking and thought they recognized him from those early photos. Can you tell us anything about that this morning or anything further on the investigation?

GOV. SPENCER COX, (R) UTAH: Well, all we can confirm is that those conversations definitely were happening and they -- they did not believe it was actually him. It was -- it was all joking until -- until he -- you know, until he admitted that it -- it -- it actually was him.

RADDATZ: And -- and anything new on the investigation? You say he admitted that. Confessed?

COX: No, not -- not -- again, he has -- he has not confessed to -- to authorities. He -- he is -- he is -- he is not cooperating. But -- but -- but all the people around him are cooperating. And I -- I think that’s -- that’s -- that’s very important.

There were reports yesterday that -- that -- that -- that we can confirm that -- that his roommate was indeed a boyfriend who -- who is transitioning from -- from male to female. That’s -- that’s information that the FBI had -- had mentioned yesterday. We can confirm that as well. And that -- that he is cooperating with -- with authorities as well.

RADDATZ: And -- and, Governor, you told “The Wall Street Journal” that Tyler Robinson was deeply indoctrinated with leftist ideology. Have investigators uncovered evidence to -- to show that?

COX: Well, so far that -- that has come from his acquaintance and his family members. That’s where that initial information has come from. Certainly, there will be much more information that is released in the charging documents as they’re bringing all of that together. I’d just like to remind people that -- that -- that -- that press conference on Friday, we had been up all night trying to get as much as we could in a very short amount of time. We’re collecting much more, including forensic evidence that is coming back from Quantico that -- that will -- will help us tie the -- the -- the shooter to -- to the weapon and everything else. So, that’s all being processed right now. And there will be much, much more information on Tuesday when that’s -- when that document is filed with the -- with the courts.

RADDATZ: And -- and, Governor, let’s go back to Friday and your very powerful words and advice. You said “this was a watershed moment that could be a turning point in history, depending on the collective actions.”

What needs to happen for this to be a good turning point?

GOV. SPENCER COX, (R) UTAH: Well, you know, right now, we’re in a dark place. Everybody gets that, I think. And we have choices.

And we -- in my political philosophy and my -- in my religious philosophy, we believe in agency, that every one of us gets to make our own decisions.

And I think -- I hate this idea that what -- you know, what a governor says or what the president says, that's what matters more than anything else. It is not. And if we’re waiting for a president or a governor of Utah or anywhere else to get us out of this mess, that’s -- that's just never going to happen.

And so, we -- every one of us has to make a decision. Are we going to hate our neighbor? Are we going to hate the other side? Are we going to return violence with violence?

Or are we going to find a different path? Are we going to get out of those social media, those dark places of the Internet where conflict entrepreneurs reside who are preying upon us, these companies with trillion-dollar market caps, who are using dopamine just like fentanyl to addict us to their product and lead us -- again, those algorithms lead us to more outrage? Can we put that aside?

Can we go and serve our fellow human beings? Can we do some good in our neighborhood? Can we hug a family member? Can we talk to a neighbor that we disagree with?

That's -- that’s up to us. And that's the only way out of this. There's nothing else we can do to solve this dark chapter in our history.

RADDATZ: And, Governor, again, powerful words. But you got a phone call from President Trump right after you spoke on Friday. What did he say?

COX: This may come as a -- as a bit of a surprise to some people. But President Trump was very grateful on multiple occasions during that very long conversation that we had. He thanked me for the press conference, for the words that I said then.

He talked about Charlie. He had said publicly that he endorsed Charlie's stance on non-violence, and that we need more of that.

And so, I was -- I was very grateful for the president's call. To be honest, Martha, I don’t -- I don't do a lot of national media anymore. And it was the encouragement of the White House that I'm even on this program this morning.

RADDATZ: Did he warn you that this type of violence could affect you?

COX: Yeah, he did. He -- I mean, this -- this is a very dark conversation, but he, of course, was almost assassinated. A fraction of an inch away from having this very thing happen to him. And that's what we talked about.

These are -- these are very dangerous jobs these days. And so, it's not lost on us.

We’re human beings, too. President Trump is a human being, whether you love him or you hate him, he’s -- he’s a -- he’s a human being. And these are -- these are very tragic circumstances that impact all of us.

RADDATZ: And, Governor, just lastly, you immediately talked about Democrats who had already been targeted. President Trump said nothing about the political violence against Democrats. In fact, he blamed the radical left.

What's your reaction to that? Is that something you think he should be doing?

COX: Well, look, President Trump is very angry. And Charlie is his close personal friend. There is a lot of anger -- a lot of anger on the right, on my side of the aisle. And I’ve certainly felt that. And in this case, it does appear that that's true.

Again, more -- more information is coming, and we’ll learn more over time. You know, I don't know that that matters as much as the radicalization piece. I brought up the Democrats who were assassinated recently and how quickly we move on from these things. But the body count is piling up.

And so, I'm so concerned about this radicalization piece. And that's what we’re trying to understand. Again, this person made a choice, and it was this person's choice, and this person will be held responsible. And we have to make different choices.

And we also have to figure out how it came to be that a kid with a 4.0, with a 34 on the ACT, with a full-ride scholarship at my alma mater, who didn't even last a semester, drops out and ends up doing something like this. We need to understand that, and we need to figure out how to stop it.

RADDATZ: Thank you, Governor, so much for your words this morning. We appreciate your time.

COX: Thank you, Martha.

RADDATZ: And I'm joined now by Governor Jared Polis of Colorado, who has partnered with Governor Cox on the “Disagree Better” campaign to promote less partisan dialogue.

Thanks for joining us this morning, Governor Polis.

Your state suffered its own tragedy this week almost simultaneously. You had a -- had a school shooting. And investigators believe it was motivated by some extremism.

How did we get here? You have been trying so hard with this Disagree Better Campaign. How did we get to these moments?

GOV. JARED POLIS, (D) COLORADO: Yes, and we -- we -- we still -- we pray for the recovery of two students who were injured with the gunshot wounds in Evergreen High School. The perpetrator, the reports are, was radicalized by pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic propaganda online.

I think, as Governor Cox said, it really is an important reflection point. Violence in the political theater, in our schools, on college campuses, is unacceptable. It’s fine, and we should even celebrate, having different opinions on things, right? Charlie Kirk’s catchphrase, “prove me wrong,” encouraging peaceful debate, discussion.

But it’s wrong to resort to violence and killing. And I think that’s a message we need to reemphasize in this age when sometimes there’s too many conflicting messages out there. We need to speak unequivocally, celebrate our differences. They should lead to discussion, not violence.

RADDATZ: You heard Governor Cox, he did not -- clearly did not want to criticize President Trump at this time and -- and Charlie Cook -- Charlie Kirk was a good friend of President Trump and his family. But he has pointed the finger at what he calls the radical left. Is that the message you believe he should be putting out?

POLIS: Well, look, as Governor Cox said, the president was close friends with Charlie Kirk. And, of course, to all of Charlie’s friends and family, including the president, I extend my sincere condolences.

This is about the acts of an individual. The inexcusable, evil acts of an individual. And there have been more of those in different places at different times, the assassination of the speaker of the Minnesota assembly, the shooting here in Colorado. Whatever motivates these acts, the fault and the responsibility lie with the perpetrator. And I hope that he’s brought to justice and faces full accountability for his crime.

RADDATZ: Governor Cox also talked about the cancer -- he called it the cancer of social media. How do you get that back? It’s like trying to stop a moving train. So much of society depends on social media. Young people flock to social media. It -- it is a great idea to say this is -- this is a cause for concern. But how do you really rein that in?

POLIS: Well, look, Charlie Kirk also used social media, became popular on social media, had reach of tens of millions of people through social media.

Social media is simply the way we talk and communicate in -- in this day and age, for better or worse. And, of course, it leads to instant access to a world of information online. At the same time, it can risk people falling into radicalization or resorting to violent acts.

So, again, what I would focus on is condemning the act of violence. It’s not the free speech that led to this. It’s not the fact that people can talk and communicate online. It’s the actions of an unhinged, evil individual that create -- that cause this horrible, horrific assassination.

RADDATZ: And -- and when you look at the suspect and his family and his upbringing, and I know Spencer Cox has said he comes from a normal family, didn’t have any childhood trauma, what turns someone into a killer? And I'm -- obviously, he is still a suspect. But when you look at that, and it’s up to the perpetrator, what happens to people?

POLIS: Well, look, I mean, I'm sure, in every individual case, it can be different. I don’t know what happened to the young man who opened fire at Evergreen High School this week. I don’t know what happened to the assassin of -- of Charlie Kirk. Of course, in the course of the investigation, that will come to light.

At the end of the day, neither of these individuals can shift responsibility. It is their fault that they did this and no one else. People need to take responsibility in this day and age for actions. You know, many people play video games, many people are online, many people watch movies, and many of them are perfectly peaceful Americans who contribute to making our country safer and a better place. These two were not. So, the responsibility lies firmly with them.

RADDATZ: OK, thanks so much for joining us this morning, Governor. We appreciate it.

Coming up, I sit down with three conservative college students to discuss Charlie Kirk’s legacy and where his political movement goes from here.

We’re back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: Charlie Kirk's influence with young conservatives was far reaching, galvanizing supporters in person and online like few others. But he had plenty of critics who viewed him as using hateful and inflammatory language.

In the wake of Kirk's death, I sat down with three politically active conservative college students to understand more about Kirk's impact and his complicated legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: Kieran Laffey, Katie Caldwell and Philip Vayntrub are college students who Charlie Kirk inspired. And they are devastated by his loss.

PHILIP VAYNTRUB, WILLIAM AND MARY STUDENT: I saw that horrific, horrific video of the assassination. It was sickening.

KATIE CALDWELL, JAMES MADISON UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Just to hear like that something terrible had happened to him was just like mostly tragic.

KIERAN LAFFEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY STUDENT: I was in my history class. And for the first time in my college career, I actually stepped out. And my eyes were watery.

RADDATZ: We sat down with the group just days after Kirk's murder.

VAYNTRUB: Charlie Kirk was one of these towering figures of my youth. I'd watch these videos as a kid of him standing up, him being so articulate, but him being also so kind to everyone around him. And I said I wanted to emulate that.

RADDATZ: And Katie, how about you? What drew you to Charlie Kirk?

CALDWELL: So I definitely grew up in a more conservative household, like more traditional. We were Christian. So I think that's why I kind of felt so strongly towards Charlie Kirk because of like the similarities between his family and mine. And I think that's kind of why it hurt more.

LAFFEY: As a conservative on campus who's outspoken, who, you know, like Charlie Kirk likes to speak his mind and stand -- you know, stand up for what I think is right, I have to tell you, Martha, I'm frightened because people think he deserved to die because he just voiced his opinion.

RADDATZ: Let's talk a little bit about that here. I don't know if any of you heard Spencer Cox, the governor of Utah. But he was pleading with your generation. Let me read it.

"Your generation has an opportunity to build a culture that is very different than what we are suffering through right now. This is our moment. Do we escalate or do we find an off ramp?"

In that sense, Kieran, do you feel a responsibility to help bring both sides, all sides together?

LAFFEY: Hundred percent. I think unity is very imperative. And look, I want to see people come together. I want to see the First Amendment thrive. I want to see conversations. And I think most Americans do. And look, the reality is, I think it's going to be hard to come together.

Martha, I just don't understand how a large population of this country can celebrate something like this.

RADDATZ: Can you get past the experiences they've had that you may have had as well with people saying, I don't care or celebrating it? Can you get past that group and say, not everybody is like that?

VAYNTRUB: Well, what I would say is that political violence is so corrosive for our country because it fills all of us with suspicion, with distrust and with hate. But the reason I'm here today is to reject that. Because on my campus, we've had, you know, people cheering.We’ve had them applauding. And that should be completely and totally condemned.

But if we become as bad as them, if we act with just as much hate, then Charlie Kirk died for nothing.

RADDATZ: Kieran, I want to go back to you to talk about what it was about Charlie Kirk.

Obviously, he also had an enormous amount of charisma. He was a -- he was a fantastic speaker in groups and could engage groups.

So, who takes his place? Where does this go now?

KIERAN LAFFEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY STUDENT & CHAIR OF COLLEGE REPUBLICANS: Charlie Kirk started this on his own. He was a young guy like ourselves here.

There was no Turning Point USA. There was no, you know, young guy on campus with a, you know, political debate, revival kind of energy that he brought. He was -- he was one of a kind.

And you know, that void that he's going to leave behind, I -- I don't know how we're going to quite fill it for a long time. You know, Charlie, you know, he didn't die in vain. This -- this movement that he started must continue. I think we have to fight to unify and stand up for what's right and to continue these important conversations.

RADDATZ: You say fight for what's right. What's right?

LAFFEY: I think what's right is important and still having conversations and open debate without violence, without being shut down, without being censored. Free and fair debate and conversations was what this country was founded upon.

KATIE CALDWELL, JAMES MADISON UNIVERSITY STUDENT & CHAIR OF COLLEGE REPUBLICANS: If we as Americans can't come together and assemble and have debates on what we believe is right or wrong, we're never going to get anywhere. We're never going to be able to see the other side and we're going to live in this polarized country which I think needs to come to a stop.

RADDATZ: Do you think Charlie Kirk was bringing people together beyond those who felt the same as he did? Absolutely.

VAYNTRUB: I was at my regular College Republicans meeting yesterday and people were shocked. They were so grieved.

But we had a lot of people come who weren't even really interested in politics and they wanted to express their support.

Charlie Kirk, of course, he was political, and of -- you're going to get some -- some disagreement about that, but he was always civil.

RADDATZ: Do -- you obviously saw who was arrested. You've heard the president say -- he blames radical left and basically blaming the Democrats. We've had a lot of political violence in this -- in this country. Assassination attempts on President Trump, the killing of a Minnesota state lawmaker.

Who do you blame?

LAFFEY: Look, I think after tragedies, it's very easy to play the blame game, and that's not something I want to participate in. I think holistically condemning political violence is what has to be happening right now from either side.

RADDATZ: Katie, just think about what as a 20-year-old in America, conservative, what this means to you, and what you want to do to make the country better?

CALDWELL: What I want to see as a conservative moving forward is more, I guess, understanding of the other side because I know Charlie, like, stood for, like, open debate and he wanted to understand the other side, to see if, like, he could get them to agree with his point or, like, vice versa.

So, I think we should kind of carry on with that. Be open to other ideas and not shut down people just because of what they believe in, just kind of continue to, like, be open, open debate in honor of Charlie.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: Our thanks to Kieran, Katie, and Phillip.

I'm joined now by GOP Senator John Curtis of Utah, who lives just miles away from the Utah Valley University campus.

Good morning, Senator. Thanks for joining us.

I know these are very difficult times for all of us, and especially your state.

You heard those college students and their pain. Who do you think replaces Charlie Kirk? Where do those college students put their energy?

SEN. JOHN CURTIS, (R) UTAH: Yeah. Well, from time to time, somebody comes along that's just not replaceable, but I think the movement is certainly strong and will continue, and I think voices will step up.

It'll be interesting to see the role of his wife. She obviously is very committed to keeping the movement going and I have no doubt those shoes will be filled. Never quite the same way, but they will be filled.

RADDATZ: What -- what does the anger, where does the anger come out in this? Where do they channel that anger? Are you worried about that going forward?

These -- these kids were very reasonable and introspective, but you know how much anger is out there. What does that do to that movement?

CURTIS: Well, I -- first of all, I think we need to have a little grace for those who are angry. We know angry is a real part of grieving, but as they move past that anger, and they definitely need to move past it, we need to think about productive dialogue. You know, there's so much going on in their lives right now and this huge question of the role of social media, the role it plays, and how -- how do we use that role to be positive?

It can be positive, but I fear in many cases, it's a huge weight and a very negative weight on this generation.

RADDATZ: You know, you made a call out on X for people to contact you directly, to talk about how they are processing that murder, and you said that would impact how -- how we move forward and talk about these issues. What have you heard so far?

CURTIS: You know, everybody is grieving. It is so clear. And the reason I did that is I remember when I lost a very good friend at that age, I kept wishing somebody would listen to how I felt. And I think part of the way we help this generation is to listen. They have -- they have some very, very important things that we need to be paying attention to.

RADDATZ: I know a lot of people, certainly, and a lot of Republicans, a lot of people are listening to President Trump, and you've heard me talk about it earlier in the show. But several Republican lawmakers, prominent conservatives, including President Trump's sons, Don Jr. and Eric, as well as President Trump, have blamed this on the radical left. Is that the right thing to do, or what do you wish he was saying?

CURTIS: So, I -- if it were up to me, I think you need to take the word radical and remove right or left. And radical, if coming from any direction, is not good. It's not healthy, and it should be called out. And that's my mission is to say, look, this to me, this is -- this is not right. This is not left. We're talking about radicals. And that's where we need to put our attention.

RADDATZ: Senator, how do you think we got to this point in this country with so much political violence?

CURTIS: You know, I was -- you mentioned I live not far from the university. I was mayor of Provo, Utah, right next to it. I know you know where that is. That was just a decade ago, and it wasn't like this. And I think a number of things have come along. I don't think COVID helped. I think -- we have to look really hard. I mentioned social media before.

I think we have to look really hard at what's just occupying nearly 100 percent of brain weight of not just the youth but of all generations, and what's coming across and actually what we're allowing to come across. And there's just zero liability for what people are putting out there. And I just think that's -- if we're going to fix this, we have to look really hard 7at that.

RADDATZ: OK. Thank you so much for joining us this morning, Senator. We appreciate it.Coming up, the Powerhouse Roundtable on the political blame game after Charlie Kirk's assassination and whether we can break this cycle. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE KIRK, CO-FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA (July 2016): I founded Turning Pint USA to tell young people in America that there's a better way than big government and old school corruption. We essentially argue for free markets and free people on college campuses across the country, in the most treacherous terrain imaginable. The only way we’re going to take back the youth of this country is to storm them, and that is how we're going to make America great again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Charlie Kirk speaking at the 2016 Republican National Convention at the age of 22. He was given his speaking spot by former RNC Chair Reince Priebus, who joins our roundtable when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: Let's bring in the roundtable now.

Form RNC chair and Trump White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, former DNC chair, Donna Brazile, and executive editor of “Politico,” Alex Burns.

Good morning to you all.

And, Reince, I do want to start with you. We saw that video of Charlie Kirk. You had him take that spot. What did you see in him then?

REINCE PRIEBUS, FORMER RNC CHAIR, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF & ABC NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, back in 2013, I was doing fundraisers around the country as RNC chairman, like I always do. And I noticed kind of this young kid in the back of the room. I think it was in Newport Beach, California. And I said, well, who -- who is that? And it was Charlie Kirk. And he came up to me and said, would you mind if I come to some of your fundraisers? I’ve started this group and I’d love to be -- to meet some of these donors. And ever since then he told me what he was doing. I thought it was incredible.

And then he came up to me before the 2016 convention. We stayed in touch. And he said, I’d like to speak at the convention. And Donna knows, I mean, here’s a 22-year-old kid wants to speak at the convention? And I talked to him. And I was so impressed with him. I said, you know, I -- I can't give you a primetime spot but -- he said, that's OK. Give me something at 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon.

Charlie Kirk was a man of courage and faith. He was a guy who was happy and bold and went on college campuses, proclaimed the name of Jesus, engaged students where they were at. And obviously, what we saw the other day was pure evil and we saw it in real time. And I think that's what makes it so different and so horrific.

RADDATZ: You heard those --

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: And obviously, this is something that our society needs to confront. It's not something that can be moved on from.

RADDATZ: And, Donna, I just -- I want your reaction. Charlie Kirk had a huge, huge, huge following. Also very provocative.

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: He was. But he was someone who was on a mission. He was on a mission to make sure that conservative students had a voice on college campuses. He was on a mission to agree to disagree, to have people come to his events who disagreed with him. And as you saw, Prove Me Wrong.

There's something about the spirit of America that really inspires people like Charlie Kirk to stand up even when he knows the things he he's saying is controversial, or even blatantly wrong.

I want to say something about this moment because I think we have to address something that is really bothering all of us. We are living in a very difficult moment. I grew up -- I don't want to give my age again -- but I grew up at a time when violence was something we heard all the time. As a child, you heard it, Dr. King's death.

Dr. King wrote this book “Strength to Love” in 1963, five years before he was gunned down by assassin bullet. In that book -- and this is why I read it and I'm going to read it again. Dr. King talked about love.

Love is not something that we just throw around. But we don't know how to love each other.

And before we start thinking about how we are going to celebrate our 250th birthday, America, we need to figure out can we love ourselves? Can we love this country? Can we love people we disagree with without resorting to violence?

Can we basically love our country? Can we do that?

RADDATZ: Alex, you've -- I'm sure -- been in touch with a lot of people, the reporter on our panel here today.

What are you seeing? There is obviously a lot of grieving going on and that will continue, but does the real anger and division come back, the same as it always does?

ALEX BURNS, POLITICO SENIOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NORTH AMERICA: Martha, I don't know that it's disappeared even for a couple minutes, that I think people are capable of feeling both grief and despair and anger and rage all at the same time.

And one of the reactions that I have heard most frequently in the last few days, and this is from political actors but also from people outside of -- outside of the political sphere who are in the media or in business is the range of people who seem to be now targets for this kind of violence is growing and growing.

PRIEBUS: Uh-huh.

BURNS: The fact that Charlie Kirk was not an elected official. He was not running for office. It wouldn't be okay if he was.

PRIEBUS: No.

BURNS: But the fact that you have someone who's an activist and -- essentially an activist and a media figure, a movement figure targeted in in sort of the most civilian context imaginable, the fact that it was not that long ago that we had a major healthcare executive gunned down in broad daylight for political reasons, it does feel like the toxin is spreading.

And for all the -- you know, you spoke to Governor Cox a few minutes ago and he has a very inspiring and articulate message. And also, I just don't see where in our society that message appears to be taking hold in a way that changes human behavior.

PRIEBUS: I -- I agree with you. You look in California, they named a ballot measure, although they changed the name to -- initially, the Luigi Mangione healthcare access bill.

It -- it is a problem where division is pure profit, unity is a loser. You can sell books by dividing, radio by dividing.

I saw a poll the other day that 66 percent of young people's, Gen Zers said that violence is not the answer to solve political problems. Sixty-six percent.

Meaning a third potentially couldn't answer that question in the affirmative. And for every -- and, Donna, I appreciate everything you've said. I'm not even -- not arguing -- agree with you.

The problem is for every positive message like that, that kid is getting 30 messages telling them the opposite thing from when you said it to when I'm talking.

RADDATZ: Uh-huh.

PRIEBUS: And so, if we can't confront Meta, Snapchat, TikTok, if we can't confront this poison that these kids -- it's -- it is impossible.

You cannot kill an idea. You cannot kill truth. Charlie's message will move on and multiply. But in the meantime, we've got a problem here that needs to be confronted.

RADDATZ: And Donna, talk about that. I mean, we've heard that and -- and you heard me ask -- ask the Senator, how do you stop a moving train?

Yes, there are so much terrible stuff online. But how do you beat that?

BRAZILE: You -- you start at where we are. You start in your community. You start in your churches. We have to make sure that civil society is on board. We cannot ask politicians to just condemn this random act of violence or this shooting and that. We -- it's -- it's up to us. It's we the people. It's not the politicians. You are absolutely right.

The proliferation of money in politics is just damning all of us because we're now hardening our views, and we don't listen to the other side. We don't understand what the other side, their ideas. I was joking that as a college kid, I can still remember, I used to attend all of the Young Americans for Freedom rallies. Why? Because I wanted to hear what they were saying. I never went to disrupt them.

PRIEBUS: But these kids --

BRAZILE: I wanted to know what they were up to.

PRIEBUS: But these folks have to watch their mouth, too.

BRAZILE: Yeah.

PRIEBUS: You can call Trump a threat to democracy, a threat to the Republic, Hitler. All this garbage means something to all these people and it gets amplified and somehow they think that they're solving a problem that they're hearing from other people as well.

BRAZILE: And you cannot say enemies, Democrats, enemies from within.

PRIEBUS: Unbelievable.

BRAZILE: We've got to lower the temperature across the board. Everybody.

RADDATZ: Alex, I just want to go back to you and the point you were making before. I mean, people are fearful, too. I mean, are they fearful to go out and speak? Are they fearful to be in their offices on Capitol Hill? Just how this changes so many things.

ALEX BURNS, POLITICO SENIOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NORTH AMERICA: I remember speaking to a member of Congress after the baseball diamond (ph) shooting. Not someone who was there, actually not even a member of the same party, as the people who were targeted there are saying. This is going to change who wants to run for office. It's going to change who wants to run for reelection because we, meaning members of the House, are just out there in our communities, right?

And this will change how people feel going home to their spouses and telling them, what they're going to be up to over the weekend and how they're going to be out, sort of meeting the people they're supposed to represent. That was almost a decade ago. And since then, you have only had an almost unbroken and accelerating string of other events like these, including multiple assassination attempts against the leading presidential candidate who's now sitting in the Oval Office.

The temperature is not coming down. So I agree completely with Donna and with Reince about what we would love to see from our leaders. We're not seeing it.

RADDATZ: OK. Thanks to all of you. Coming up, President Trump says Russia's drone incursion into Poland could have been a mistake. We'll ask GOP Congressman Michael McCaul if he agrees, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: There were major developments this week in the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. So, I'm joined now by Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas, the former chair of the Homeland Security and Foreign Relations Committee.

It's good to see you this morning.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE CHAIR EMERITUS: Thanks for having me.

RADDATZ: Congressman, President Trump said on Thursday that those 19 Russian drones that entered Polish air space were -- could be a mistake by Russia. Do you think it was a mistake?

MCCAUL: With all deference to the president, I don't think that was a mistake. I think -- I think Putin is testing the resolve of NATO. He wants to see how NATO reacts, how Poland reacts. The good news is Poland had a great response. They shot them down. But it shows you how aggressive Putin is getting in the region. Not only the drones, but these war game exercises with Belarus right on the NATO border, the Baltic States.

The nuclear bombers that flew to Poland around close to their airspace, and then these strikes up in the Arctic. He's really putting the pressure on right now.

RADDATZ: But Poland obviously did not think that was a mistake. And NATO is moving air defenses, including air patrols, from the Baltics to the Mediterranean. Do you think that's a good move or could that possibly escalate things?

MCCAUL: Well, I think it's a response to Putin's aggression. Putin is the one responsible for this. And so, it's called Eastern Sentry. That means the prepositioning of assets, relocation of military assets to the eastern flank of NATO right on the border.

We've never seen anything like this in recent times. And so, what I'm concerned about is that the escalation here and the temperature rising, we got to be very careful not to be on the precipice of a World War III.

RADDATZ: Talk about that more because they are going to escalate this. They're going to put in more air defenses. So, Putin -- that's what Putin was worried about originally. He said the root causes of this, he kept saying. So what do you expect to happen from Russia?

MCCAUL: I think he'll continue to be provocative and saber-rattle. I don't think he would use nuclear weapons. I think China put a red line. I think, you know, the nuclear fallout could even go into his country or invoke Article Five in Poland. So I think -- what we need to do is negotiate out of strength.

RADDATZ: But you've heard President Trump this week, and again and again, multiple threats about these sanctions. Starting back August 21st and 22nd, he says, they'll know what happens in two weeks. Trump says on August 18th, it would be known in a week or two whether the war would continue and we'll do something. August 15th, it goes on and on and on, and these deadlines simply pass and Putin puts more pressure and bigger attacks in Ukraine.

MCCAUL: And we do give the president more strength in his negotiations. Now, as I understand it, the president wants all of NATO to join together on secondary sanctions. It doesn't do us any good to put secondary sanctions --

RADDATZ: And stop buying Russian oil.

MCCAUL: Right.

RADDATZ: You think that's going to happen?

MCCAUL: And let -- allow France and Germany to continue to buy Russian oil. So, this has to be a team effort. I think NATO needs to stick together on this and NATO as an organization with the United States leading puts the secondary sanctions on. I predict that is what's going to happen.

RADDATZ: Thom Tillis said he believes Russia is playing the U.S. Do you think President Trump was played, especially at that Alaska summit?

MCCAUL: I never had any good faith anticipation of these negotiations. I -- Putin is a KGB once and always, and I don't think he's playing fair. I think he's manipulating the president as a KGB officer would.

I think the president, though, the good news is, is waking up to the fact that Putin is not negotiating in good faith, not making concessions, and has to be dealt with.

And I -- you know, the more Putin irritates the president, I think the better we are in terms of defending NATO and Ukraine.

RADDATZ: And just quickly on Qatar, the Israelis did a strike in Qatar, our ally. What do you think the effects of that are?

MCCAUL: I get the -- you know, wanting to take out Hamas. By the way, they missed all the targets. They didn't hit the Hamas leadership. I understand all that. But then remember, Qatar has one of our largest air bases, our CENTCOM hub is run out of Qatar. We asked them to negotiate these negotiations with Hamas, and then the shot across the bow.

I don't think -- you know, as the president said, it -- this does not serve the interest of the United States or Israel well long term. And what do I mean by that? I think normalization is where we want to be at the end of the day. The more we inflame the Arab world, the less likely that normalization process. What do I mean by that? I mean, peace with Israel, Abraham Accords.

RADDATZ: I want to close with this -- 9/11 anniversary this week overshadowed certainly by the shooting of Charlie Kirk. Your career has been based on what happened on 9/11.

MCCAUL: Yeah, I was up there in New York for that powerful ceremony, it changed my life and many others, but I became a counterterrorism federal prosecutor within the Justice Department. I entered Congress. I chaired the Homeland Security Committee. I saw the rise of ISIS and the caliphate. As chairman of Foreign Affairs, I saw Afghanistan fall and Putin invade Ukraine and the Middle East on fire, and then the threat from Chairman Xi and China in the Indo-Pacific.

These are all issues I've -- it's been an honor to serve for over two decades in the Congress. I'm looking now for a new challenge. I'm going to -- I'm going to serve the remainder of my term. But I'm looking for a new challenge in the same space that would be national security, foreign policy, but just in a -- in a different realm. But I want to continue to serve the people of this country in national security and foreign policy, and do what I've done in the last two decades, make America stronger and the world safer.

RADDATZ: Well, that's a good plan. They'll miss you on the Hill. You got a ways to go. Thanks for joining us this morning.

MCCAUL: Thanks so much.

RADDATZ: Appreciate it.

MCCAUL: Thank you.

RADDATZ: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and have a good day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)